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I do see they 'withdraw' some items....

- I've been in contact with them about moving some of my rings... SO,, I sent their main man a link to this topic... We'll see what happens...........

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Originally Posted by Gaspare
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I do see they 'withdraw' some items....

- I've been in contact with them about moving some of my rings... SO,, I sent their main man a link to this topic... We'll see what happens...........

I contacted them as well, and sent a link to our forum thread.
Stephen

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This is likely a naive question, but I was under the impression that there is a list somewhere of SSHR recipients and the date when the ring was awarded. If so, wouldn't this Thym guy and the date of his ring award be listed there? If he existed and if his SSHR was awarded in 1944, as noted by Antonio, that kills this ring straight away.

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Originally Posted by Stephen
This is likely a naive question, but I was under the impression that there is a list somewhere of SSHR recipients and the date when the ring was awarded. If so, wouldn't this Thym guy and the date of his ring award be listed there? If he existed and if his SSHR was awarded in 1944, as noted by Antonio, that kills this ring straight away.
You are correct. There are Dienstalterslisten der SS available and that would include ring award date. Someone on the forum should have access ot this info and hopefully will post it.

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Curious about these marks. I just noticed them. Are they casting flaws?

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Hi Stephen, I don't think you can see "casting flaws" on this ring, because I think the faker worked on the wax model, exactly as Gahr did, and we perfectly know that a good casting process doesn't produce what we call "casting flaws". We tend to believe casting processes are low quality processes, but actually this is only a myth...
A good casting production process has characteristics and micro flaws (of course!) that a die stricking process cannot have.
In this case, the flaws you highlighted on the Hagal rune are not "flaws", the dot is IMO the result of a hit, the one on the right arm of the rune is matching the shape of the originals (the rune was good enough in the original, so the faker no needed to rework the entire runic panel here), and he reworked only the left side and the leaves on the left.

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Thank you, Antonio. I appreciate the education I'm getting here.

Well, it looks like the message from Gaspare and/or me may have had the desired effect.. The bids got to 8,750 Euros and then the ring was withdrawn. How about that. The Mighty Power of the GDC Ring Forum!

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I am sure it will get into circulation at another time, another place.

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Originally Posted by ed773
I am sure it will get into circulation at another time, another place.
But it has been flagged as a fake/altered ring so hopefully no one will will get taken by it. Of course, folks who don't follow forums or want advice will be the prime suspects.
Good job folks!

Last edited by Tanker; 03/03/2024 03:40 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tanker
Originally Posted by Stephen
This is likely a naive question, but I was under the impression that there is a list somewhere of SSHR recipients and the date when the ring was awarded. If so, wouldn't this Thym guy and the date of his ring award be listed there? If he existed and if his SSHR was awarded in 1944, as noted by Antonio, that kills this ring straight away.
You are correct. There are Dienstalterslisten der SS available and that would include ring award date. Someone on the forum should have access ot this info and hopefully will post it.

Guys,
I dug around on the Internet and I found a few links relevant to the Dienstaltersliste Der SS Der NSDAP. In the 1943 DAL, there is no one named Thym. Not in 1942 either. I couldn't find the 1944 DAL. Regardless, if there was no Thym in the SS in 1943, even if he joined in 1944, he would not have been eligible for an SSHR so quickly. If Antonio's assessment isn't convincing enough, maybe this is another nail in the coffin for this ring.
Stephen

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He is not on the 1934 List.

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Originally Posted by Stephen
... Well, it looks like the message from Gaspare and/or me may have had the desired effect. The bids got to 8,750 Euros and then the ring was withdrawn. How about that. The Mighty Power of the GDC Ring Forum!

Folks,

It got all quiet around here all of a sudden. Just to let you guys know, I got an email from Ratisbons thanking us for notifying them that this ring is a copy and for giving them the opportunity to withdraw it from the auction. Nice to know that there are some organisations that put integrity before profit.
Stephen

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Originally Posted by Stephen
Originally Posted by Stephen
... Well, it looks like the message from Gaspare and/or me may have had the desired effect. The bids got to 8,750 Euros and then the ring was withdrawn. How about that. The Mighty Power of the GDC Ring Forum!

Folks,

It got all quiet around here all of a sudden. Just to let you guys know, I got an email from Ratisbons thanking us for notifying them that this ring is a copy and for giving them the opportunity to withdraw it from the auction. Nice to know that there are some organisations that put integrity before profit.
Stephen

Stephen
I agree. There were just too many problems with that ring to openly declare it to be good. After Antonio provided the assessment and pointed out problems, put the nail in the coffin. Power to the forum and members who prevented this item from the market. If it surfaces again, at least we will know what to look for. Ron

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I had written them a long email and provided a link to the topic.... Told them we have the leading members on the HR,,, and also guys that make the best copies. To just read carefully then make their own decision.. Its not worth the money and lose some of their reputation. Guess they heeded our info!!


Good work to all involved whether you liked it or not. I'm proud of all of you,,we saved someone a bunch of money! and the reputation of that auction house.. Good work members!! wink

Last edited by Gaspare; 03/07/2024 11:54 PM.
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Hi guys,
I had the opportunity to personally examine the ring under a microscope and I can confirm that it is indeed a copy. A very sneaky copy. I would like to thank Ratisbon's auctionhall for allowing a personal inspection.

Upon initial inspection, one has the subjective feeling that one is holding an original in one's hand. The ring is really nicely cast, a very good job was done. The ring should give the impression that it is a scaled-down original. This corresponds to recasting of the skull and seam and a very small diameter - 17.9 mm (weight 10,5 g). Even the engraving is often over-engraved if it is damaged during reduction. I have already encountered such cases in my collecting practice. As I say, nothing that should seem particularly suspicious.
However, upon closer examination under a magnifying glass and later under a microscope, one discovers something very suspicious, which immediately catches one's eye - a modified Heilszeichen rune. And here I have to agree with Antonio in everything he wrote. The wax matrix has actually been modified to be nicer and better preserved. In doing so, however, the engraver made several fundamental mistakes, described by Antony.

This is a really dangerous copy that would probably confuse any beginner, maybe even an advanced collector. Here you are some photos...

Martin Toman

IMG_20240402_211932210.jpg (35.87 KB, 57 downloads)
IMG_20240402_200658389_HDR.jpg (27.74 KB, 57 downloads)
zito.jpg (61.76 KB, 57 downloads)
Sig-Rune-1.jpg (48.24 KB, 57 downloads)
Double-Rune-4.jpg (67.26 KB, 57 downloads)
Last edited by equirhodont; 04/18/2024 07:12 PM.

I´m the author of the book "SS-Totenkopfring Himmleruv prsten cti"
www.totenkopfring.eu
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At least it was identified and posted here for future reference. Thanks for the update.

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Martin , Thanks so much for your post.. Its a dangerous fake. It could easily be turned into a ground dug HR and the defect might not be seen. Any newly turned up HR must be scrutinized fully..

I just checked their up-and-coming auction: https://www.ratisbons.com/59th-contemporary-history-auction?searchterm=ring

So far every PP ring is a fake. There is a HR to an infamous personality, Fritz Freitag. Engraving looks a bit light.... Anyone else seen it?

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Originally Posted by Gaspare
…. So far every PP ring is a fake. There is a HR to an infamous personality, Fritz Freitag. Engraving looks a bit light.... Anyone else seen it?

Yeah, I saw that one too. I mentioned it in the post about their fake Luftwaffe ring. The starting bid is €7,800. if you look through the various Ratisbon auctions, there are a lot of fake or copied rings. In fact, I‘m not sure that I saw one that I thought was authentic.

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