Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#276056 12/22/2012 05:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
I came across this piece recently & thought that some of the members here may enjoy seeing it.

It's a silver (2nd class) achievement badge for crossbow shooting from Innsbruck in 1938. "Bolz" is the abbreviation for "bolzen", the bolts used with crossbows known as "Ambrust" in German.

At this time I am unable to say whether this event was held during the Landesschießen in Sept '38 or from another event that year.

Cheers
Don

bolz 1.jpg (38.4 KB, 219 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
reverse. It is heavily vaulted which causes a bright glare from the scanner.

bolz 3.jpg (40.16 KB, 216 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
And just in case people are sceptical that crossbow shooting was as an event in the state shoots; Here is a photo taken at the Salzburg Gauschießen in 1943 showing Gauleiter Dr. Scheel & Kreisleiter Kastner on the Armbrustschießstand....

Salzburger_Zeitung_1943_09_30_page_3.jpg (84.66 KB, 219 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Thanks Don. I find it interesting.
I recall Bill, WWII had some shooting medals with crossbows depicted.
I wonder what the range and qualifications were?
I assume the finish would change with class of award?

Happy Holidays,
--dj--Joe


<BR>
derjager #276068 12/22/2012 07:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Don, can you make out what the round objects are in the right upper background of the picture?

---dj--Joe


<BR>
derjager #276080 12/23/2012 12:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Don,

Great award, it looks to have a good size and weight to it, as well as flawless enamel-work! This one makes for an absolutely excellent addition to your collection of Tyrolean badges, medals and decorations, really nice. wink

A most unusual photograph, too. Two 'gold-pheasants' in the Schützen Stand, with crossbows. The picture has to be as rare as the badge itself?

Joe,

You have a mind like a steel-trap!

I do have a couple archery/crossbow-related items that I'll have to snap and can add. Methinks the discs hanging on the wall of the shooting-stand are decorated with past high-scoring Scheiben, (targets) of club members? It's definitely a possibility. The Armbrust (crossbow) is a long-standing symbol still used by many present-day German shooting clubs. Quite a lethal weapon.

Can you guys believe another collecting year's almost passed by? I'd like to take the opportunity to wish both of you gentlemen a very Merry Christmas and a superb year in 2013.

Best regards!

Bill

WWII #276111 12/23/2012 09:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
Thank you gentlemen.

Joe;
I think Bill has hit the nail on the head, the actual picture isn't any clearer but I would guess that they are prize targets. I'll attach a picture of one that still exists from the 1939 Landesschießen. This one became quite contraversial a couple of years ago when the media in Austria started asking questions as to whether it was appropriate for it to be hanging in pride of place in the Schützen haus that has it. I believe that it was Gauleiter Hofer's target.

Bill;

You are right, the year has passed at a phenominal rate. I'm begining to fear that I shall kick the bucket before my research on these shoots is finished eek....

And a Merry Christmas to both of you as well!!

Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Merry Christmas.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
derjager #276214 12/26/2012 03:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
As a side note, the badge being worn on the lapel of the man standing on the right in the picture is likely to be of this design....

Cheers
Don

Salzburg 43.jpg (30.01 KB, 154 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 739
ETF Offline
Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 739
Don, Great looking crossbow shooting badge in beautiful condition. It's the first one I've had the opportunity to view. I do belive the other badge that you posted here is the same type worn by the man on the right in the photo. Great eye for detail.

I think the targets displayed are fantastic. If I'm ever down in that area for a visit I'd make it a definate trip to that Schützen haus that has it. That's amazing that they still have Franz Hofers target...fascinating!

Leave it to the media to stir up trouble where there is none.

It's the same in the U.S. unfortunately.

Last edited by ETF; 12/29/2012 04:04 PM.
ETF #276334 12/30/2012 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Gents,

A few more crossbow-related items.

Best!

Bill

Armbrust2sm.jpg (80.34 KB, 182 downloads)
WWII #276335 12/30/2012 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
2/2

armbrust.jpg (91.83 KB, 181 downloads)
WWII #276338 12/30/2012 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 739
ETF Offline
Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 739
Great looking badges. Beautiful!

ETF #276348 12/30/2012 09:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
Some lovely pieces as usual Bill, thank you for posting them.

Thank you also to ETF for taking the time to reply.

Happy New Year
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
WWII #276356 12/31/2012 01:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 339
Offline
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 339
Bill, I really like the one on the wooden plaque. Is it a club medal or individual konig? Very nice. Happy new year and good collecting in 2013. James

jager #276378 01/01/2013 11:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
James,

A very Happy New Year to you and all our collecting mates here on the forums!

The decorative plaque was given by the ladies to the men of shooting club, "Crossbow," to recognize and celebrate the official, fiftieth anniversary of the club's flag. Cut and fashioned from a thin piece of silver sheet metal, it measures about 7x9 inches. It's size and relative light weight lead me to believe it might have been used to top-off one of the smaller, runner-type banners? Those somewhere around 7x40 inches long. Most often the long, thin banners were handsomely and richly embroidered - also made and presented by the ladies to the club. It may also have been used to indicate and identify that club's main table or Stammtisch, at a much larger social event? It could have also just hung on a wall in the clubhouse or even graced their main flag display?

That's about all I can surmise without photographic evidence, but I'm sure that wherever this elegant piece of handwork was displayed, it turned plenty of heads.

Thanks to all who've contributed and commented, sure hope we can see some more.

Best!

Bill

WWII #276427 01/02/2013 01:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4

On the subject of archery this decoration may be somewhat apropos ...

I doubt the award is even German, rather, Belgian or Dutch, by the style of the crown? The oak/laurel-leaf wreath can also be deceiving in this case, but the crown should always take precedence when determining national origin.

Whatever the case, here's hoping you'll enjoy it. wink

Best!

Bill

armbrust3sm.jpg (50.49 KB, 141 downloads)
WWII #276445 01/02/2013 11:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Bill, that's the one that stuck in my memory these past few smile years.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
derjager #276509 01/04/2013 06:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,777
Likes: 21
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,777
Likes: 21
I love this stuff, thank you all for showing some very nice shooting badges. The traditional archers bow and cross bows are part of the oldest of traditions when it comes to shooting events and clubs.

I hope you all don't mind, but just wanted to add that prior to the advent of firearms of course. One of the oldest traditions concerning the use of the cross bow is called "Bird Shooting" which was very popular in the middle ages and throughout. The tradition of "Bird Shooting" hasn't been lost and is still going strong today. Some shooting clubs, "depending on their own rules" still determine the best shooter by this very old tradition. The royal title of Shooting King and or Eagle/Bird King as well as the other titles comes with responsibilities and is a great honor, not only for the individual but for the club as well.

It's believed that during the early bird shooting events live birds such as roosters, geese and other birds were used. Instead of clay pigeons for target practice, using live Pigeons is still legal in some countries and I think Pennsylvania is or was the last holdout state? Turkey shoots were common at one time. In Monaco live pigeon shoots of twenty thousand birds in a season was common and was very popular outside of the casino until one of these dying birds landed at the feet of Princes Grace, so it's said? Although I believe she might of had something to do with banning these events, I'm not sure I believe the dying bird at her feet part? The object was to kill as many birds as possible and elimination with two misses with lots of bets and big money prizes. The one and only time in Olympic history live pigeons were used, was at the 1900 Olympics. As well as at some point running boar and deer?

Sometime during the 13th century the Crusaders introduced the parrot, which became immensely popular with some shooting clubs. That's why we see on rare occasions shooting chains as well as other objects adorned and decorated with the parrot. Some shooting clubs are named after the parrot, which means Papagei in German. A variety of wooden eagle shaped targets, some quite large were also used at bird shooting events during this time and throughout. The eagle target used during the 1934 Leipzig event I'm guessing must have been thirteen feet by eleven feet or more. These targets were and still are for the most part mounted on top of a tall pole and sometimes on a hillside and since the objective is to knock these targets off the pole, you can imagine the amount of bolts or rounds it takes to knock these down! Although used for some time the royal/imperial eagle style wooden target has won out. Adorned with crown, scepter and orb, made of wood and nicely painted, each a work of art IMO.

Most clubs and events determine the best shooter by way of firearm or air gun target style matches and a scoring system, using paper or decorated wooden targets or by other fun means. I find that this type of Shooting King Chain is much more prevalent. I find myself very fortunate to have had the pleasure of viewing a few of these chains along with individual shooting king medals, awards and targets from some fantastic collections belonging to our members. It's quite rare to find an old, and named as such bird shooting chain. Both types are equally appealing, but I feel very fortunate to have a bird chain in my collection.

Firearm safety is of concern during these bird shooting events. The wooden bird has a protective box or barrier for the rounds, the gun is mounted on a pedestal and is in a fixed position in such a manner that the gun can't be maneuvered outside the boundary of this barrier. The bird shooting events are very exciting and my favorite by far. The festivities and atmosphere surrounding these events can last for a few days and without a doubt a lot of fun as well.

Thanks again guys for always sharing your fantastic collections.

Mikee #276510 01/04/2013 08:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
Hi Mikee,

Thank you for your detailed reply which I found very interesting. This is indeed a very large subject area & there is much to learn.

Cheers
Don


"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Mikee,

Thanks for taking time to describe these interesting, traditional, Waffen-customs. Your insight, knowledge and explanations are always first-rate.

I have to agree, one of my favorite subjects too, German shooting medals, pins and chains make for such a great area to collect and study. The cultural aspects and awards themselves cover a lot of ground, easily spanning hundreds of years. So much to see, so much to learn.

Always a worthwhile read when any of you gents starts a new thread or adds to an old one. wink

Best regards and good collecting to all !

Bill

WWII #314267 12/28/2015 06:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
I know I found this of interest so bringing it back around for those who might have missed it.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
ETF #336851 02/23/2018 02:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
Just bringing this old thread up to the top.

The photo in one of the posts on the previous page shows the Kreisleiter of Salzburg using a crossbow in 1943.

Just after Christmas I came across this badge being offered for sale. It appears that the following year, 1944, Salzburg held an Armbrust Gauschiessen.... The badge is the gold with oakleaves grade, so there must be a bronze, silver & gold grade out there somewhere....

Cheers
Don

Last edited by Don Scowen; 02/23/2018 02:18 PM.

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Hi Don,
A most interesting badge. Black bulls eye. I see the ghost of gilt paint on the wreath and the badge body. Great find.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,188
Likes: 8
Thank you for your comments Joe. Yes there are traces of gilt remaining.

We have a saying over here regarding waiting ages for a bus then two arriving.... Well the same has happened here. I showed the pictures to a fellow collector who said that he also had one. On closer inspection we found that it is a different badge, this one for Heimatwerk Salzburg & undated. The construction is similar to the Gauschiessen so I would guess a similar age, if not the same year, maybe one year either side?

This one also has a wreath but has a bronze wash so I have to assume that all grades had the wreath & the manufacturer either didn't bother removing it for the lower grades or maybe the Heimatwerk badge is not a Leistung but a participant's or day badge. However I personally doubt this & suspect that removing the wreath was a cost saving exercise. For those not aware, most of the Kreisschiessen badges were stamped with a wreath for all grades & the wreath was cut off during finishing for the lower grades.

Cheers
Don

Salzburg Heimatwerk 1.jpg (138.8 KB, 65 downloads)
Salzburg Heimatwerk 2.jpg (57.88 KB, 65 downloads)

"Much that once was, is lost, for none now live who remember it"

Galadriel, LotR.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Don,
Perhaps an event periodical will pop up showing more.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,783
Likes: 9
A subject probably not often thought about. Crossbows. Archery during WWII.

--dj--Joe


<BR>

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,259,710 SS Bayonets
1,759,221 Teno Insignia Set
1,127,071 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Bulgarian Brannik youth knife - real?
by Chiska - 02/26/2024 08:27 PM
artificial ivory grip
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/25/2024 03:36 PM
HR on Rats auction
by Gaspare - 02/24/2024 01:04 PM
SOS rings +
by Gaspare - 02/23/2024 12:36 AM
FAIRBAIRN SYKES BRITISH DAGGER KNIFE ?
by Dutchman - 02/22/2024 04:52 PM
Latest New Posts
HR on Rats auction
by Tanker - 02/27/2024 04:22 AM
Verlangerungsmesser
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 02/27/2024 03:25 AM
artificial ivory grip
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 02/27/2024 01:50 AM
Bulgarian Brannik youth knife - real?
by Gaspare - 02/26/2024 11:45 PM
SOS rings +
by Gaspare - 02/26/2024 04:57 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,624
Posts328,337
Members7,488
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
4 members (student36, The_Collector, ollar, gunnertwo), 375 guests, and 113 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5