Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
I bought this on eBay in Jan. 2022 for the price of $550.00, I was the only bidder. It was listed as "1928 German Shooting award Presentation dagger Hirschfanger sword Solingen". The seller noted the two inscriptions, "Carl Evers, 1926" on the top scabbard mount and "Seinen Treffsicheren Jagern, Zum 100 Jahr Jubilaum, Hauptmann Hesse, Gadebusch d. 16. 7. 1928" on the bottom scabbard mount.

I almost did not buy this Hirschfanger because it was an unmarked blade and the two different names and dates on the inscriptions had me confused. My research found C. Evers was the 1927 Schutzen Konig of Gadebusch and was listed as born 1879 on the 1919 Gadebusch census. My research of Hauptmann Hesse found a military record for Karl Alexander Hesse, and he was listed as born 1893 on the 1919 Gadebusch census.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Carl Evers won the 1926 Gadebusch Schutzenfest and was the 1927 Gadebuscher Schutzen Konig and this Hirschfanger was presented to him by Hauptmann (Captain) Hesse in 1928. I also believe this Hirschfanger is an unmarked Carl Eickhorn model Nr. 36.

I was also very lucky to find the "Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft v. 1583 e.V." club patch in March 2022 on eBay in the United Kingdom.

IMG-0777.jpg (20.46 KB, 393 downloads)
Carl Eickhorn, Nr. 36, Hirschfanger
IMG-0780.jpg (35.05 KB, 391 downloads)
Carl Eickhorn, Nr. 36, Hirschfanger
IMG-0778.jpg (31.57 KB, 392 downloads)
Carl Eickhorn, Nr. 36, Hirschfanger
IMG-0779.jpg (20.98 KB, 391 downloads)
Carl Eickhorn, Nr. 36, Hirschfanger
big_53600928_0_800-624 Gadebusch Konigs Tafel.jpg (65.77 KB, 389 downloads)
Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft, Konjgs Tafel
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/28/2023 11:13 PM. Reason: I added more detail information.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,
Very nice find. Hopefully wotan will chime in and help with the translation and his take on it's meaning. I think it says. His Hunters with (very) good aim, For the 100 year Anniversary. Captain Hesse. A lot of members in shooting clubs if not most were also hunters. It doesn't say that it was for a Schutzen Konig or that it was a prize and the dates don't reflect it either for such an event according to the historical record you have. But still a very nice presentation piece and an awesome piece of that clubs history. Best!

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Thanks for the reply, Mikee.

I have tried to contact this club four times. The last time was last night.

Maybe if someone in Germany could ask for a picture of C. Evers, 1927 Schutzen Konig they could post a picture.

There are lots of old pictures hanging in the Gadebuscher Schutzenhaus.

C. Evers may have seen the shooting club flag made in 1929.

Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft Flag 001.jpg (31.82 KB, 374 downloads)
Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft, Garde-Jager-Korps, 1887-1929
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,

Now that would make sense if it was 1829 instead of 1887. That would be a 100 year anniversary of course. I hope you can find out.

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Hey Mikee,

1887-1929 is 42 years and is probably not related to the 100-year-anniversary of something in 1928.

The fact that the flag is a "Garde-Jager-Korps" may indicate a Military connection.

Maybe Hauptmann Hesse was in a Jager Regiment?

Schutzen members were also the "protectors" of the town.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/29/2023 02:27 AM. Reason: correct spelling.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
From Wikipedia:

At a Schützenfest, contestants compete based on their shooting abilities, for example, by shooting at a wooden representation of an eagle. The competition's winner becomes the Schützenkönig ("king of marksmen") until the following year's competition.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,

Yes I agree it's not related, my point exactly. Garde-Jager-Korps a part of the club maybe. I don't know everything lol but I actually know all that you stated, I surprise myself sometimes lol. I believe I mentioned it before in another one of your posts and it's not only or always a wooden eagle or Konigsadler, depends on the type of club, large club, small club, type of weapons, caliber used and affiliation as well and their rules. Believe it or not early on it was live birds and animals. Before the middle ages yes they gathered to practice to protect or ordered to do so and that progressed into forming clubs even prior to the middle ages. Some clubs date as far back as the 12th century and most likely earlier then that. Yes they wear military style uniforms, swords, medals etc. but the emphasis is on shooting now not fighting, but socializing, ceremonies, parades and parties, a little or a lot of drinking, you know fun stuff lol. US clubs wore military styled uniforms as well. Any way it certainly had it's ups and downs over the centuries. During WWII it all changed as well, and then DSB started up again around 1951 if I remember correctly and if it even really stopped. But that's for another discussion. Best!

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Mikee,

I would like to thank you for your first unbiased observation reply. I think that I was probably mistaken because of the eBay seller's title. You are correct that there is no reference to a Schutzen Konig on the Hirschfanger. Maybe Carl Evers had his name and 1926 engraved on his 1920's Hirschfanger, won the 1927 Schutzenfest and was awarded a medal or Königspokal. Then in 1928 was awarded an honor award document from Hauptmann Hesse, and a jeweler engraved the bottom scabbard from the award document. Does this sound more logical to you?

I found a picture of a 1932 Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft Königspokal that was returned to the club by the grandson or great-grandson of O. Kopsiker, the original owner. I also have no idea about the dates of the flag (1887-1929) that is displayed in the Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft club.

Here is the caption to the picture of the 1932 Königspokal: Lutz Kidawa und Jürgen Lienshöft (v.l.) mit dem Königspokal aus dem Jahr 1932. Der Enkel von Schützenkönig Kopsiker überreichte die Auszeichnung dem Verein hinsichtlich der Kulturpflege. FOTO: VOLKER BOHLMANN

23-78606254-23-78606255-1458747921.jpg (30.25 KB, 340 downloads)
Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft, 1932 Schutzen prize
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/29/2023 06:21 PM. Reason: Changed some words.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,
Love the story about the Königspokal. I'm sure they will take good care of it.

Thank you it's not a problem. I'm just trying to help out the best I can. It's been my experience that if an item is a Schutzenfest prize it would state it along with other relevant information. As for winning and being recognized as Schutzenkonig for the year 1927, Carl Evers I'm sure would have received awards along with his name inscribed on the Kings chain and if he won a Schutzen fest in 1926 he also would have been recognized and won a prize of some type. Was it this Hirschfanger I'm not yet convinced for a number of reasons without proof...All of this would have been documented in various ways, the club records or printed in the club or local news papers of the time. Yours is simply what it says it is, A dedication to; "His Hunters with (very) good aim, For the 100 year Anniversary. Of course it was never a mystery to them what that anniversary/connection/history was all about or the 1926 date. Yes it is missing some information so it's a little bit of mystery for us but with a little bit of study into the history of this club I'm sure it will reveal a whole lot more. I think you will learn so much when you research this further.

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Mikee, thanks again for your help.

It now makes more sense that this Hirschfanger is not a Schutzen prize, just my eBay prize. I am still trying to find out about the bottom scabbard inscription of 1928.

There is a picture of a Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft Konigskette, last seen in 1939. So maybe Carl Evers received a Schutzen medal and a Konigspokal in 1927.

Research notes: Otto Kopsicker was the 1932 Gadebuscher Schutzen Konig and the caption of the photo had the surname (Kopsicker), misspelled and I copied the surname misspelling. His grandson returned the Konigspokal.

See the Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft Konigs Tafel and "1932, O. Kopsicker".

big_26682840_0_400-417 Gadebusch shooting medals, 1939.jpg (42.28 KB, 304 downloads)
Gadebuscher Konigs Schutzenkette (Kings shooting chain}, Last seen in 1939.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/30/2023 05:27 PM. Reason: I changed the words.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
I found this picture of a 1920's Schutzenfest in Gadebusch, Germany.

image (3) Gadebusch Schultzfest 1920's.jpg (64.85 KB, 301 downloads)
1920's Schutzenfest, @ das Rathaus (Town hall), Gadebusch.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/30/2023 09:44 PM.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,

Wow the history is amazing and that's one heck of a Kings chain. Yes his name was certainly placed on this chain with all the rest. No telling what he actually received without research but whatever it was, it's nice. Let us know what you find out. I was actually at Gadebusch and Rugen after the fall of the wall.

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,075
Likes: 35
Online Content
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,075
Likes: 35
Mikee, your translation is near to perfect! " To his unerring Hunters, for the 100 year Anniversary. Captain Hesse, Gadebusch on 16.7.1928.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
wotan,
Thank you. big smile.

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
wotan, and Mikee

Thank you both, the eBay seller's translation used the word "accurate", which is the definition of "unerring".

The big question is the 100-year anniversary of what event.

What happened in 1828?

I am still researching for the answer.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/31/2023 02:27 AM. Reason: I changed a word.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
After 1 year of research of the Gadebusch Schutzenzunft I have found no National or State "1928 100 Jahr. Jubliaum" (Anniversary).

I now believe the July 16, 1928, 100-year Anniversary must be a very local to Gadebusch event. Perhaps specific to the Gadebusch Schutzenzunft.

This shooting club had an old Schutzenhaus (Shooting house), that is pictured on old postcards, 1913 or before. Maybe the Schutzenhaus was built in 1828, and that is the answer.

The old Schutzenhaus was going to be torn down, but the mayor stepped in to save the old building and it is now used for a "Jugendtreff" (Youth club).

I have sent an e-mail to the Gadebusch Museum, and I hope they will answer my question about the July 16, 1928, 100-year Anniversary.

Lithographie-Gadebusch-Kriegerdenkmal-Marktplatz-Gasthaus-Schuetzenhaus.jpg (125.54 KB, 266 downloads)
Gruss aus Gadebusch (Views of Gadebusch), old postcard.
22733804276 Gadebusch Schutzenhaus postcard.jpg (117.68 KB, 266 downloads)
Gruss aus Gadebusch (Views of Gadebusch), old postcard.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/31/2023 04:31 PM. Reason: I added a word.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,

That's awesome, hope you get the answer.

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Here is an old picture of the old Schutzenhaus (Shooting clubhouse) in Gadebusch. This picture may have been hand-tinted with color or colorized.

Years later the front porch was removed, recent pictures show no porch.

IMG-0787.jpg (113.59 KB, 246 downloads)
The old Schutzenhaus (Shooting house) in Gadebusch.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/01/2023 10:15 PM. Reason: added a verb and added some information.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
My 5th email with pictures of Carl Evers, unmarked Carl Eickhorn Nr. 36 Hirschfanger to the Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft was well received and, I got an email reply from Oberst, Lutz Kidawa:

From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]

Sun, Dec 3 at 1:42 PM
Do you have a picture of Carl Evers you can send to me please?

What was the 100 Jahr anniversary on July 16, 1928?

Greetings from Middletown, Delaware, U.S.A.

Regards, Calvin J. Wetzel Jr.


Lutz Kidawa
From:
[email protected]
To:
Calvin Wetzel

Thu, Dec 7 at 6:11 AM
Dear Mr. Calvin J. Wetzel Jr.,
our Gadebusch shooting guild was founded in 1583 and already exists
440 years.
During the SED rule in the GDR, shooting clubs were forbidden.
Many historical items were lost during this time. Unfortunately, we don't know anything about many items and their whereabouts.
There were a few brave citizens of our city who hid and saved some items that were valuable to our shooting guild.
Among other things, the pictures of the kings of the last decades.
I would be happy to send you some documents here.
You are welcome to access some information on the homepage.
www.schuetzen-gadebusch.com
Merry Christmas and warm greetings from Gadebusch in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern

Ich hoffe, sie verstehen meine Antwort.

Ingrid Schafranski
Guild Secretary


Gesendet: Sonntag, 03. Dezember 2023 um 19:42 Uhr
Von: "Calvin Wetzel" <[email protected]>
An: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Betreff: Carl Evers, 1927 Schutzen Konig

Web capture_7-12-2023_124844_www.schuetzen-gadebusch.com.jpeg (29.74 KB, 181 downloads)
Lutz Kidawa, Gadebuscher Schutzen Konig
Web capture_7-12-2023_124751_www.schuetzen-gadebusch.com.jpeg (62.86 KB, 181 downloads)
Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft, und Konigs Tafel.
Web capture_7-12-2023_124531_www.schuetzen-gadebusch.com.jpeg (39.35 KB, 180 downloads)
Gadebuscher Schutzen banner 1583-1997
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 12/07/2023 06:29 PM. Reason: added email to Gadebusch.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
I sent another email to Oberst Lutz Kidawa of the Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft:

From:
[email protected]
To:
Lutz Kidawa

Thu, Dec 7 at 1:57 PM

"Dear Oberst Kidawa,
Danke.

I am a member and contributor on German Daggers.com and have created a thread for "C. Evers, 1927 Schutzen Konig, Gadebusch, Germany", I would like very much to have a picture of Carl Evers, Gadebuscher Schutzen Konig of 1927.

I have researched Carl Evers on Ancestry.com and he was born in 1879 and is listed on the 1919 Gadebusch census. Hauptmann Karl Alexander Hesse was born in 1893 and is listed on the 1919 Gadebusch census.

My ancestor Johann "Jacob" Wetzel (I)-3515 (1718-1785) last of Hereford Twsp., Berks Co. PA came from Germany and arrived at Philadelphia on Oct. 8, 1737.

Thanks again for your reply, have a Merry Christmas, C. Wetzel-20609".


The reply was a wonderful Christmas present:


From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]


Fri, Dec 8 at 11:32 AM

"Hello Mr. Wetzel,
thank you very much for you thee information, including about your
German ancestors.
I am sending you the picture you a Merry Christmas and would
be happy to get in touch with you again.
Many greetings on behalf of the Gadebuscher Schützenzunft von 1583 e.V. tho Philadelphia.

Lutz Kidawa
Colonel of the guild".


Hey Mikee, check out the date on the picture of Carl Evers, Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft Konig, 1926.

Merry Christmas, Calvin

Carl Evers 1926 .jpg (79.1 KB, 166 downloads)
Carl Evers, Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft Konig, 1926.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,

Wow that's awesome.love that picture. proudly wearing that chain. Thanks for keeping us informed. A real treat indeed!

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Thanks for the kind words, Mikee. The picture sure made my day.

I sent another email to Oberst Lutz Kidawa, asking why does the Gadebuscher "Konigs Tafel" have "1927 C. Evers"?

I asked if this a mistake or tradition.

Carl Evers Schutzen Konig picture and Carl Evers Hirschfanger are both dated 1926.

I placed a small (3 X 5) print of the picture in a plastic holder to display next to the Hirschfanger.

Carl Evers (age 40) had a wife, Johanna (age 37) and two sons, Hubert (age 15) and Wilhelm (age 11) on the 1919 Gadebusch census, I wonder what became of this family during all the time that has past.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 12/09/2023 07:28 AM.
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
I sent my question to Oberst Lutz Kidawa and, tried my best to send the email in German. Today I got the reply.

Calvin Wetzel
From:
[email protected]
To:
[email protected]

Fri, Dec 8 at 9:27 PM

Dear Oberst Kidawa,

das Hirschfanger und der Bild, Carl Evers ist Jahr 1926.

Warum der Jahr 1927 (C. Evers) Konigs Tafel?

Ist das ein Felher oder Tradition?

C. Wetzel-20609


Lutz Kidawa
From:
[email protected]
To:
Calvin Wetzel

Sat, Dec 9 at 4:59 AM

Hallo Herr Wetzel,
zu dieser Frage habe ich heute Kontakt zu einen Bürger aus Gadebusch aufgenommen,
der alte Dokumente über unsere Stadt und Zunft hat.
Aber 1926 wird das richtige Datum sein. Tafel in diesem Fall falsch beschriftet ?
Nach Überprüfung ,werde ich mich melden.

Mit Schützengruß
Lutz Kidawa
Oberst der Zunft

TRANSLATION by C. Wetzel-20609:
I am in contact with a member of the public on this question today taken from Gadebusch, who has old documents about our city and guild.
But 1926 will be the right date.
Plaque incorrectly labeled in this case? After verification, I will get back to you.

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
That date was perplexing unless he was shooting king for both years, but the clubs historical record didn't match. Like you and Lutz Kidawa stated it must be a mistake. But because of you the clubs historical record will get corrected we hope. Good job! Best.

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 221
Likes: 16
G
Offline
G
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 221
Likes: 16
Lovely picture with a great Schützen Königskette.
I once owned one of these, impressive one.

Ger

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
I took a new picture today of the Carl Evers, Carl Eickhorn Nr. 36 Hirschfanger, to send to the Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft v. 1583 e. V. in the hope of getting some new information.

I then sent an email with the new picture:

"Hallo Oberst Kidawa,

Was gibt's neues?

Das Konigs Tafel Carl Evers ist jahr 1926 jetzt?

July 16, 1928, Zum 100 jahr. Jubilaum?

Neu bild (foto) of der Carl Evers, Carl Eickhorn Nr. 36 Hirschfanger fur das Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft v. 1583 e. V.


Greetings from
Calvin Wetzel
Middletown, DE, U.S.A."

IMG_1556.jpg (68.53 KB, 93 downloads)
Carl Evers, Gadebuscher Schutzenkonig 1926 and his Carl Eickhorn Nr. 36 Hirschfanger.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Online Content
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,975
Likes: 45
Wetzel,

Awesome picture and tribute to the man. I'm sure it's very much appreciated.

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 221
Likes: 16
G
Offline
G
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 221
Likes: 16
Nice display!

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
OP Offline
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 613
Likes: 22
Recent photos from the Gadebuscher Schutzenzunft web site shows no change to the Konigs Tafel.

If you go to the site (the link is posted above from the Guild Secretary) at the top of page, click on Aktuelles, then fotos, then Königsball 27.01.2024 (01. 02. 2024). [Alle Fotos zur Rubrik Party-Fotos anzeigen]

The last foto shown below, confirms no change to the Konigs Tafel.

Fotos of the Gadebuscher Schutzenkonig shows the Schutzenkonig wearing the new Gadebuscher Schutzenkette (Shooting chain).

As noted above, the old Gadebuscher Schutzenkette (Shooting chain) was last seen in 1939.

Web capture_8-2-2024_13656_www.schuetzen-gadebusch.com.jpeg (54.77 KB, 60 downloads)
Königsball 27.01.2024 (01. 02. 2024)
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/08/2024 11:32 PM.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,309,956 SS Bayonets
1,807,200 Teno Insignia Set
1,173,098 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Ring ads in period magazines and books
by n0th1ng - 12/11/2024 12:11 AM
F.J.Stephens
by wotan - 12/11/2024 12:00 AM
1938 Walther PP Question
by RML - 12/10/2024 07:15 PM
Paratrooper helmet
by adriano - 12/09/2024 09:39 PM
German Pewter Pitchers
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 12/08/2024 10:13 PM
Latest New Posts
Pin Plates
by Mikee - 12/11/2024 01:17 AM
Ring ads in period magazines and books
by n0th1ng - 12/11/2024 12:26 AM
F.J.Stephens
by Mikee - 12/11/2024 12:16 AM
1938 Walther PP Question
by Vern - 12/10/2024 11:01 PM
Warning: Fake Laurin Mark.
by Mikee - 12/10/2024 03:21 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,755
Posts330,531
Members7,674
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
10 members (Vern, Jonesy, Agtruck, Tanker, n0th1ng, Mikee, seany, wotan, TRIPLE T, Gaspare), 277 guests, and 62 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5