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OP
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Hello,
Jusr want to share a SS dagger made by RICH.ABR.HERDER stamped II for Essen
Thanks ffor looking
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OP
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In context
Last edited by OWN; 10/11/2023 11:22 AM.
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Looks good so far, OWN, but can we see more ?
The crossguard is on backwards so it has been taken apart. The leather on the hanger may be too thick, so extra photos would be good.
Dave
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Joined: May 2004
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The blade looks unusual to me:
-not the usual shape?
-too wide and/or the motto script too small?
Extra pictures might prove me wrong...
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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OP
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What kind of pictures you mean ?
the zoom on my camera and the angle I took them can change a lot the dimensions.
Not easy to take pictures of blade due to reflections and after that I am not a photograph.
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Looks good so far, OWN, but can we see more ?
The crossguard is on backwards so it has been taken apart. The leather on the hanger may be too thick, so extra photos would be good.
Dave Yes I taken it apart and I remove the rust on the inside part, it was hard to unscrew the bolt, had to taken it in the jaws, with shims, on my lathe, after one night in Kroil bath. You mean the II had to be on the other side ?
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OP
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Looks good so far, OWN, but can we see more ?
The crossguard is on backwards so it has been taken apart. The leather on the hanger may be too thick, so extra photos would be good.
Dave Yes thanks for the head up, a jump in my T Johnson books, confirm your observation. I just make it right now.
Last edited by OWN; 10/11/2023 04:50 PM.
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The more I see, the less I like. These "shoulders" on the grip are very bad news. The hanger clip seems wrong too. The blade shape is mentioned above, and the crossgrain needs better photos  Dave
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That leather hanger looks like it was made yesterday. The grip fits bad for a SS dagger of that time, or any time.
And, yes, the blade looks odd, blunt at the tip, and isn't the maker mark too low??
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The more I see, the less I like. These "shoulders" on the grip are very bad news. The hanger clip seems wrong too. The blade shape is mentioned above, and the crossgrain needs better photos Dave In fact it does not work this side, too much clearance from the blade to the crossguard and the handle do not fit well, I returned to the original position and the things gone right No problem if it is stamped on thee wrong side.
Last edited by OWN; 10/12/2023 12:57 AM.
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OP
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That leather hanger looks like it was made yesterday. The grip fits bad for a SS dagger of that time, or any time.
And, yes, the blade looks odd, blunt at the tip, and isn't the maker mark too low?? I have a box full of hangers, this dagger was found whithout The maker mark is at the same distance that the one p53 of Thomas Johnson book v 1 proportionaly speaking
Last edited by OWN; 10/12/2023 12:49 AM.
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The blade is 22 cm long 8,3/4
3.5 cm at the crossguard 1.3/8
Than for all your comments very appreciated
Last edited by OWN; 10/12/2023 01:09 AM.
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Here are two Herder non-Rohm trademarks.
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OP
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Hi,
They don't seem to be at the same distance from the crossguard; mine is 1.5 cm from crossguard to the center of the diamond.
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The blade tip looks blunted
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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Wonder how we will rectify this problem
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The blade tip looks blunted Wonder how we will rectify this problem Hello I tried to show different pictures, the one is under. weighed they have the same weight 265 grams
Last edited by OWN; 10/17/2023 09:13 AM.
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OWN,
That is the correct length for an SA/SS blade.
But, looking at the entire dagger:
- I think the grip is not correct - the SS roundel is a repro, the grip does not have the fine Herder contours, and the shoulders stick up too much as I showed above.
- I do not like the cross grain on the blade.
- The hanger is a repro.
Dave
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What is the cross grain on the blade ?
I would like to know why the SS roudel is false
The because is more interesting that the tell
Last edited by OWN; 10/17/2023 08:33 PM.
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With all respect, OWN, I think you need to learn more about the basics of SS daggers. I would suggest: 1. Purchase this book: Exploring The Dress Daggers Of The German SS http://www.wwiidaggers.com/REFTTW.htm2. Looking through the many posts in this forum about SS Daggers. There are many examples of roundels and cross grain shown 3. Going to any militaria shows that you can find. Regards, Dave
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1 member likes this:
seany |
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With the same respect Dave, I was born at the end of WWII,
and I am enjoying what I found when I was young, after that.
I always enjoy to learn more about lot of things.
I have and use 4 books of LTC Thomas Johnson edited in 1980 as referees
I will post more in the future.
Last edited by OWN; 10/18/2023 12:38 AM.
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OP
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I red the post you made "SS rune identification" and found the same "button" on post 303683 by kreta 1961 and by the same dagger maker R.A. Herder.
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It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy.
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might suggest: WAM Hobby Journal #1-SS Daggers By Whittman Antique Militaria : It's on you tube . Also Wittman Antique Militaria wwiidaggers.com Mr.Wittman has a book on SS daggers it's 800 pages or so believe he still has it for sale. He is the go to for daggers. Highly recommend. I consider him the expert. Enjoy your dagger.
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It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy. Thank you, but read well my posts I never ask for opinions. I have read the rules and they say 'a place to share'
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might suggest: WAM Hobby Journal #1-SS Daggers By Whittman Antique Militaria : It's on you tube . Also Wittman Antique Militaria wwiidaggers.com Mr.Wittman has a book on SS daggers it's 800 pages or so believe he still has it for sale. He is the go to for daggers. Highly recommend. I consider him the expert. Enjoy your dagger. Thank you so much, but you must understand that the shipping to europe is prohibitive.
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[quote=ed773]It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy. Thank you, but read well my posts I never ask for opinions. But I received them very well anytime I OWN it for 45 years now I have read the rules and they say 'a place to share' so...
Last edited by OWN; 10/19/2023 10:28 PM.
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It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy. Thank you, but read well my posts I never ask for opinions. I have read the rules and they say 'a place to share' I can agree with that with what you said about sharing....I would also say in defense of the Gents here and also this website that has countless decades of combined knowledged from the most advanced in the SS dagger topic........ ..that if you go into a Doctors office and have a fever..and the doctor notices that you have an open lesion on the side of your leg ....should the doctor not say anything...which that lesion may be the reason why you have a fever ? Your car needs and oil change and while its up on the lift..the mechanic says you need new brakes soon....just ignore that too ? I would want someone to point out the truth whether I ask for it or not..it could be life or death. Truth hurts sometimes..but its all constructive and well intended. Never think its an attack on you...its the focus of the dagger. This is a forum of discussion everything will be discussed what ever is posted. We want to make you aware of what you may not be seeing or aware of as well. These SS daggers are highly sought after and also highly faked..its why a discussion HAS to ensue. Best Regards Larry
Last edited by Larry C; 10/22/2023 03:11 AM.
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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Thank you Larry,
in your long comments there is nothing that will not be widely shared with you.
My collection cover a lot of German daggers, I am not specialized in one model, I like all of them, I collect them for more than 50 years
and I can with this approach knew somme interesting people who are no longer alive at this time.
I prefer share them here cause in Europe it is not very well appreciated.
Best regards
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Enjoy your collection Sir : )
Best Regards Larry
Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
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OWN,
- I do not like the cross grain on the blade.
Dave Hi I am back for a while. I think I understand now what you mean about the cross grain, here is a picture found about the dagger, before I dismantled it and clean, I think you can see the "cross grain" Certainly for a pure collector this was an error, to clean it, sorry for the mistake, but I am victim sometimes of pulsability.
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That maker's mark is too close to the crossguard and the "cross grain" you show - thin and scratchy - is a sure indication of a FAKE.
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That maker's mark is too close to the crossguard and the "cross grain" you show - thin and scratchy - is a sure indication of a FAKE. I agree, now it shows that it is an obvious reproduction.
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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