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#359344 10/11/2023 11:13 AM
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Hello,
Jusr want to share a SS dagger made by RICH.ABR.HERDER stamped II for Essen
Thanks ffor looking

L1100138_1.jpg (36.75 KB, 393 downloads)
L1100140_2.jpg (24.84 KB, 393 downloads)
L1100141_3.jpg (31.22 KB, 391 downloads)
L1100148_2.JPG (53.26 KB, 392 downloads)
L1100149_2.jpg (35.81 KB, 392 downloads)
OWN #359345 10/11/2023 11:14 AM
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In context

L1100159_2.jpg (80.87 KB, 388 downloads)
Last edited by OWN; 10/11/2023 11:22 AM.
OWN #359350 10/11/2023 02:00 PM
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Looks good so far, OWN, but can we see more ?

The crossguard is on backwards so it has been taken apart. The leather on the hanger may be too thick, so extra photos would be good.

Dave

OWN #359351 10/11/2023 02:26 PM
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The blade looks unusual to me:
-not the usual shape?
-too wide and/or the motto script too small?

Extra pictures might prove me wrong...


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OWN #359352 10/11/2023 02:52 PM
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What kind of pictures you mean ?
the zoom on my camera and the angle I took them can change a lot the dimensions.
Not easy to take pictures of blade due to reflections and after that I am not a photograph.

Dave #359353 10/11/2023 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave
Looks good so far, OWN, but can we see more ?

The crossguard is on backwards so it has been taken apart. The leather on the hanger may be too thick, so extra photos would be good.

Dave
Yes I taken it apart and I remove the rust on the inside part, it was hard to unscrew the bolt, had to taken it in the jaws, with shims, on my lathe, after one night in Kroil bath.
You mean the II had to be on the other side ?

Dave #359354 10/11/2023 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave
Looks good so far, OWN, but can we see more ?

The crossguard is on backwards so it has been taken apart. The leather on the hanger may be too thick, so extra photos would be good.

Dave
Yes thanks for the head up, a jump in my T Johnson books, confirm your observation. I just make it right now.

L1100172.jpg (89.69 KB, 365 downloads)
Last edited by OWN; 10/11/2023 04:50 PM.
OWN #359355 10/11/2023 06:22 PM
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The more I see, the less I like.

These "shoulders" on the grip are very bad news.

The hanger clip seems wrong too. The blade shape is mentioned above, and the crossgrain needs better photos frown

Dave

L1100172.jpg (41.76 KB, 357 downloads)
OWN #359356 10/11/2023 11:36 PM
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That leather hanger looks like it was made yesterday. The grip fits bad for a SS dagger of that time, or any time.
And, yes, the blade looks odd, blunt at the tip, and isn't the maker mark too low??

Dave #359357 10/12/2023 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave
The more I see, the less I like.

These "shoulders" on the grip are very bad news.

The hanger clip seems wrong too. The blade shape is mentioned above, and the crossgrain needs better photos frown

Dave
In fact it does not work this side, too much clearance from the blade to the crossguard
and the handle do not fit well, I returned to the original position and the things gone right
No problem if it is stamped on thee wrong side.

Last edited by OWN; 10/12/2023 12:57 AM.
ed773 #359358 10/12/2023 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ed773
That leather hanger looks like it was made yesterday. The grip fits bad for a SS dagger of that time, or any time.
And, yes, the blade looks odd, blunt at the tip, and isn't the maker mark too low??
I have a box full of hangers, this dagger was found whithout
The maker mark is at the same distance that the one p53 of Thomas Johnson book v 1 proportionaly speaking

Last edited by OWN; 10/12/2023 12:49 AM.
OWN #359359 10/12/2023 01:06 AM
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The blade is 22 cm long 8,3/4
3.5 cm at the crossguard 1.3/8
Than for all your comments very appreciated

Last edited by OWN; 10/12/2023 01:09 AM.
OWN #359360 10/12/2023 01:37 AM
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Here are two Herder non-Rohm trademarks.

Herder R-1.jpg (8.79 KB, 338 downloads)
SS Herder, Ra.jpg (44.5 KB, 339 downloads)
OWN #359362 10/12/2023 09:59 AM
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Hi,
They don't seem to be at the same distance from the crossguard; mine is 1.5 cm from crossguard to the center of the diamond.

OWN #359400 10/15/2023 12:09 AM
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The blade tip looks blunted


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OWN #359406 10/15/2023 11:49 PM
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Wonder how we will rectify this problem

ed773 #359413 10/17/2023 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry C
The blade tip looks blunted
Originally Posted by ed773
Wonder how we will rectify this problem
Hello
I tried to show different pictures, the one is under.
weighed they have the same weight 265 grams

Blade1.jpg (114.67 KB, 255 downloads)
Blade2.jpg (118.08 KB, 254 downloads)
blade3.jpg (45.71 KB, 251 downloads)
Last edited by OWN; 10/17/2023 09:13 AM.
OWN #359414 10/17/2023 04:18 PM
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Measuring tape?

Texasuberalles #359415 10/17/2023 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasuberalles
Measuring tape?
22 cm, 8 3/4

blade44.jpg (43.48 KB, 231 downloads)
OWN #359416 10/17/2023 06:28 PM
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OWN,

That is the correct length for an SA/SS blade.

But, looking at the entire dagger:

- I think the grip is not correct - the SS roundel is a repro, the grip does not have the fine Herder contours, and the shoulders stick up too much as I showed above.

- I do not like the cross grain on the blade.

- The hanger is a repro.

Dave

OWN #359417 10/17/2023 08:24 PM
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What is the cross grain on the blade ?
I would like to know why the SS roudel is false
The because is more interesting that the tell

Last edited by OWN; 10/17/2023 08:33 PM.
OWN #359419 10/17/2023 09:44 PM
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With all respect, OWN, I think you need to learn more about the basics of SS daggers.

I would suggest:

1. Purchase this book: Exploring The Dress Daggers Of The German SS
http://www.wwiidaggers.com/REFTTW.htm

2. Looking through the many posts in this forum about SS Daggers. There are many examples of roundels and cross grain shown

3. Going to any militaria shows that you can find.

Regards,
Dave

1 member likes this: seany
OWN #359423 10/18/2023 12:14 AM
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With the same respect Dave, I was born at the end of WWII,
and I am enjoying what I found when I was young, after that.
I always enjoy to learn more about lot of things.
I have and use 4 books of LTC Thomas Johnson edited in 1980 as referees
I will post more in the future.

Last edited by OWN; 10/18/2023 12:38 AM.
OWN #359430 10/19/2023 04:12 PM
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I red the post you made "SS rune identification" and found the same "button" on post 303683 by kreta 1961 and by the same dagger maker R.A. Herder.

OWN #359431 10/19/2023 05:09 PM
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It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy.

OWN #359433 10/19/2023 08:44 PM
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might suggest: WAM Hobby Journal #1-SS Daggers By Whittman Antique Militaria : It's on you tube . Also Wittman Antique Militaria wwiidaggers.com Mr.Wittman has a book on SS daggers it's 800 pages or so believe he still has it for sale. He is the go to for daggers. Highly recommend. I consider him the expert. Enjoy your dagger.

ed773 #359434 10/19/2023 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ed773
It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy.
Thank you, but read well my posts I never ask for opinions.
I have read the rules and they say 'a place to share'

Luftbud #359435 10/19/2023 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Luftbud
might suggest: WAM Hobby Journal #1-SS Daggers By Whittman Antique Militaria : It's on you tube . Also Wittman Antique Militaria wwiidaggers.com Mr.Wittman has a book on SS daggers it's 800 pages or so believe he still has it for sale. He is the go to for daggers. Highly recommend. I consider him the expert. Enjoy your dagger.
Thank you so much, but you must understand that the shipping to europe is prohibitive.

OWN #359436 10/19/2023 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by OWN
[quote=ed773]It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy.
Thank you, but read well my posts I never ask for opinions.
But I received them very well anytime
I OWN it for 45 years now
I have read the rules and they say 'a place to share' so...

Last edited by OWN; 10/19/2023 10:28 PM.
OWN #359459 10/22/2023 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by OWN
Originally Posted by ed773
It is your dagger, and its anything you want it to be. You asked for opinions, you got them.
If the dagger is one you like and want, then good for you, enjoy.
Thank you, but read well my posts I never ask for opinions.
I have read the rules and they say 'a place to share'


I can agree with that with what you said about sharing....I would also say in defense of the Gents here and also this website that has countless decades of combined knowledged from the most advanced in the SS dagger topic........ ..that if you go into a Doctors office and have a fever..and the doctor notices that you have an open lesion on the side of your leg ....should the doctor not say anything...which that lesion may be the reason why you have a fever ?
Your car needs and oil change and while its up on the lift..the mechanic says you need new brakes soon....just ignore that too ?

I would want someone to point out the truth whether I ask for it or not..it could be life or death. Truth hurts sometimes..but its all constructive and well intended.
Never think its an attack on you...its the focus of the dagger.
This is a forum of discussion everything will be discussed what ever is posted.

We want to make you aware of what you may not be seeing or aware of as well. These SS daggers are highly sought after and also highly faked..its why a discussion HAS to ensue.

Best Regards Larry

Last edited by Larry C; 10/22/2023 03:11 AM.

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OWN #359466 10/22/2023 12:50 PM
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Thank you Larry,
in your long comments there is nothing that will not be widely shared with you.
My collection cover a lot of German daggers, I am not specialized in one model, I like all of them, I collect them for more than 50 years
and I can with this approach knew somme interesting people who are no longer alive at this time.
I prefer share them here cause in Europe it is not very well appreciated.
Best regards

OWN #359472 10/22/2023 09:59 PM
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Enjoy your collection Sir : )

Best Regards Larry


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Dave #359762 11/18/2023 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave
OWN,


- I do not like the cross grain on the blade.


Dave

Hi I am back for a while.
I think I understand now what you mean about the cross grain,
here is a picture found about the dagger, before I dismantled it and clean, I think you can see the "cross grain"
Certainly for a pure collector this was an error, to clean it, sorry for the mistake, but I am victim sometimes of pulsability.

Image8.jpg (49.73 KB, 127 downloads)
Image7.jpg (51.27 KB, 126 downloads)
Image6.jpg (86.24 KB, 127 downloads)
OWN #359763 11/18/2023 07:30 PM
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That maker's mark is too close to the crossguard and the "cross grain" you show - thin and scratchy - is a sure indication of a FAKE.

Dave #359776 11/19/2023 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave
That maker's mark is too close to the crossguard and the "cross grain" you show - thin and scratchy - is a sure indication of a FAKE.

I agree, now it shows that it is an obvious reproduction.


You never have enough HJ-knifes!

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