UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum Warning: Fake Laurin Mark.

Looking around I actually saw some authentic WWII german rings for sale on an US auction!!. Prices were very high,,but maybe thats what they are now..

anyway,,, While looking around I saw this.. - A fake Laurin mark [Ln].. Looks like they were trying very hard.. * We know what the real ones look like*. The mark represents a finely made and finished ring..

So, forget the other 2 marks look at the band. Streaky, just about unfinished, unpolished, thick... No way a Ln mark would be on that band..

Be careful out there guys..........

PS

well what you know! I posted it already! On this well thought out fake
https://forum.germandaggers.com/ubb...;Words=Laurin&Search=true#Post358050

lets see here:

Can any member see this well enough to do a translation for us?! Even a partial translation?! Much thanks in advance!

-

This one a little easier?

- anyone that can do a little translation??

The text in the first ad you posted is pretty blurry and indistinct Gaspare. I can't make a lot of it out. This one says:

Laurin jewellery

Recognisable by the Laurin stamp

The Laurin stamp is only awarded to those pieces of jewellery that meet very specific conditions for material and durability

Stephen, yeah I couldn't get it any clearer.. The 2nd is a bit better..

Thanks so much for the translation .

The stamp Transends'' all jewelers. - They all could use it....BUT,, there must have been some type of governing body .. Otherwise some jeweler could make a real POS piece, some real junk,,,and simply put the Ln stamps on it!!
I've looked a few times, done a small amount of research, but could not find really anything.. - There must have been standards, or penalty if if the stamp was used incorrectly,,, .A fine, suspension,, loss of manufacture licence [?] something!!!.

IF any one of you have seen it, or have it saved, it sure would be nice for us all to see it... Meanwhile,,I'll continue to check around, do what research I can,,there must be something out there...

going thru some old files I came across this:

This is very well done!.. - An already worn [snakes&skull ring] had this added a while before then they carried on after a while with the rest of the aging. A really good job , certain to fool many beginners and some experienced!!

Red line = fake Laurin mark [Ln] ,, and blue line the maker [F*] in rounded off rectangle......


SO,, be careful of what the counterfeiters call the 'truth'... Ask them to explain how the inside of stamp ages well before the rest of the ring

Here an example of a original Laurin stamp. I don't know if the stamp is molded with the production of the brooch or stamped later on.

kind of looks like its stamped in. That is really a beautiful piece of jewelry. .

- Well thought out too,,,the 'bumps' on each side of the main circle inner,,is to support the long pin..

- Maybe the guys would like to see such a nice piece a little better [I would].. IF you'd like [up to you of course] maybe a bigger/better straight shot of front [?] ..

OR, maybe its own topic ,,thats got nothing to do with a fake Laurin mark thats for sure ., thanks., G.

Ok, G. I'll make a new topic.

A decent copy of a Lion head ring with the fake Ln mark and copy box....

The seller is pretty slick,,I tried but can't copy the photos or even the title for a link!!!

- * This on U.S. eBay:

"Original WW2 German Kriegsmarine Battleship Schnellboot Silver 800 Lion Ring"


1st,, be careful of the ring AND this box.... 2nd we have to be careful as its just a short time and they will be making the Ln mark smaller! It still won't be perfect but just be careful..

- ****** IF anyone can put a shot of the Ln mark on and one shot of the ring that would be great for the other members to see!!

OK Gaspare, "Original WW2 German Kriegsmarine Battleship Schnellboot Silver 800 Lion Ring".

C. J. W.-20609

C.J.W. ,,, You da man!!

Really,, thanks so much.. I guess thats how everyone will soon be listing on eBay.. - I was going to try a screen shot. Is that how you obtained them?


_ *** So thanks to C.W. we now have photos... - *** The pattern itself is correct. Detail good. But a copy.. The seller has a whole bunch of different patterns ,,same box etc.
Inner band differs from the authentic... Has spurious 'Berlin' and date markings ... Also it has the overly large Ln marking.. It will take them a short bit of time but eventually we'll start to see them with the Ln in the proper size!

Well, gees, look where they are from, Repo center of the universe.

Gaspare,

to save an image, click on the larger auction image, then on my top right corner of computer screen is "Settings and more". Scroll down and click on to "Web capture". Wait until more icons appear, then find "Save" box on top right to download. Then click on the "Documents" and find the Web capture you want and click on "Preview" and use Microsoft office "Picture manager", then click on right bar of keypad to "Edit", "Crop" and "Resize". Then left side "Save as", then screen askes "Do you want to save changes?".

I have been doing this for about 1 year. Another way is "Settings and more" then "Tools" and "Save page as".

Web capture works when "Save page as" doesn't.

I have no computer training, just 6 years' experience on Ancestry.com and Find A Grave web sites where I spent many 10-hour days and learned on my own.

C. J. W.-20609

C.W. , I'm on the '23 and Me'.. Gets you hooked in. I found a few 1st cousins, 2nd cousins. Don't look further than that..

Yes I'll give it a try web capture, save page.... Thanks again so much..

Many of us use this mark as criteria for authentication. With some experience you'll know that mark is bogus as soon as you see it! For new collectors its best to go on a 'silver site' They are mainly silverware, but the bigger ones have different categories for the silver, jewelry, what type,, Europe, UK, US and after you see the quality of the Ln marked pieces and the only maybe 2 variants of the Ln mark it IS helpful then to use for authentication.

I've already gotten a nasty email stating,,"keep showing these counterfeiters how to do it right and we might as well stop collecting now!"
- * Makes me question, are we doing right??

People who send nasty email are pricks, regardless. And I think, yes, we are doing the right thing. That ‘We’re helping the the fakers and thieves‘ argument is a cliché. They will carry on producing crap rings irrespective of anything we show. Why should we let the fakers control or worse, limit, the forum as a helpful and educational centre for experienced collectors and novices?

yeah I hear you.. - * As I mentioned ,,they might make the Ln mark smaller but it will still be missing something!

Are we saying that this Ln mark is used as a "quality mark" on other manufactures made jewelry? Best!

The Laurin stamp (Ln) was, to my understanding, a mark of high quality on German silver and gold items, not just rings, but also brooches, cigarette cases, and other gold- and silverware, that signified high quality. It was a guarantee of high quality material and flawless workmanship. The Laurin mark was used from 1934-1938, after which it was abandoned because manufacturers objected to its use being rather arbitrary and subjective.

I have a few silver rings with Laurin stamp. I have never seen the Ln stamp on gold, but I don’t own anything made of gold. Anything with the Ln mark is pre-1938 (or fake).

Hey Stephen,

I thought I understood that point for a long time now. It just never made sense to me and never understood where this notion of only a one mark a "quality mark" for other makers came from. I thought at one point someone posted a piece of Jewelry from one manufacturer with their own maker mark but also marked with a Ln mark? Is this the case two marks and Is it possible to post one?

It's a rarity when I disagree with you because you are so very knowledgeable. It's only a minor one, You stated that "The Laurin mark was used from 1934-1938, after which it was abandoned because manufacturers objected to its use being rather arbitrary and subjective". I have reference material that the Laurin mark was still in use after those dates. The Laurin mark was used throughout the companies history. It's their registered trade mark and nobody else's.

I don't know if our members realize this fact, but Laurin was it's own company and a manufacturer of gold and silver objects with it's own unique registered trade mark. They do make quality items and imo it's all about advertising that their mark is a "mark of quality". All manufactures believe their mark is a mark of quality even if it's not lol. I could be wrong. Thank you for your help.Best!

I forgot to add something.

Translation:

Laurin jewellery

Recognisable by the Laurin stamp

The Laurin stamp is only awarded to those pieces of jewellery that meet very specific conditions for material and durability

This means, their jewelry goes through a rigorous inspection process and must pass before they but their own mark on it. This doesn't mean other manufactures jewelry.

If I see two registered German maker trademarks on one piece of Jewelry that'a huge red flag IMO.Best!

Good questions, Mikee. I did already know that Laurin was a distinct company. Indeed, Gaspare has a few period ads from Laurin Schmuck. I translated one for him and it will be included in his book. The others are shown earlier in this thread.

I have wondered who decided that the 'Ln' mark was 'the mark of quality', and when this happened. I have read different accounts; some say 1934, some 1936. Some say from 1934-1938, as noted above, while others say until the end of the war.

Anyway, I did some digging on the internet and found the link below. It is very interesting:
https://www.jewelry-and-more.de/deutschland/ln-laurin/

According to the press article shown, which is from ‘Uhrmacher-Woche’ (Watchmakers’ Magazine) published in 1936, the Ln mark was ‘introduced around 1936 as a seal of quality for jewellery in the mid-price range'.

In 1936, the jewellery industry apparently ...‘suffered from a “lack of consumer demand” and sought a way to boost business again. It was noted that buyers of mid-priced jewellery had little opportunity to verify the quality of the goods. The Laurin seal of quality was therefore introduced to serve as a guarantee of quality and authenticity of the materials used. It was not tied to specific manufacturers. The costs for the introduction and awarding of the Laurin hallmarks were borne by the Association of Wholesalers in the Precious Metals Trade’.

Presumably, then, it was this organisation that established the Laurin mark as a mark of quality or silver and gold items made by multiple firms.

The article also notes that: The Ln seal of quality 'is often found on jewellery from the 1930s and 1940s. Nevertheless, it never really caught on and had completely disappeared by the end of the Second World War at the latest'.


I have two or three rings in my collection that have dual stamps, one of which is the Ln mark and the other, another jeweller's hallmark. There are also several examples posted here on GDC over the years. I have attached one example of a dual hallmark showing both Frey & Co, Pforzheim as the manufacturer as well as an Ln stamp.

Hope this helps.
Stephen

Stephen,

It sure does and it's always a pleasure.Now I understand what you meant by the dates. Awesome, thanks as always for you help. Let me read this article. Best!

Theres usually a difference when you see a Ln mark in a ring..

The inner band is a good polish. . Nice tapering thin band towards the rear.. Also the edges of the band [top and bottom] are smooth and well rounded....

That top ring is nowhere as close to the example shown in Stephens post above. [ Pretty sure that was in one of my skull rings\....

For collectors not experienced enough, that top post [and lion] if they didn't go overboard with the other marks and aged it better might fool the beginner.... Please, to all the 'lurkers' and new collectors,,,IF you see a ring with the Ln mark and even the tiniest bit not sure,,,,ask. A competent jeweler, the forums etc. Use your search functions and you'll also find rings to compare ...

That is indeed a photo of the hallmarks on one of your rings, Gaspare. You sent it to me a while ago as a good example of a properly stamped silver mark. I'm pretty sure you posted it on the forum somewhere too. S

yes.!

That mark is tiny inside the band!. But, as you can see is clearly visible... When you see a Ln worn that you can hardly see it and the rest of the marks visible, that can't happen...

benten,

That is a very nice brooch! Can we see a straight on pic shot of the Ln mark please. Can you measure it as well? Thank you. Best!