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#358660 08/09/2023 07:32 PM
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Hello and respect for all and I hope someone tell me about the item if it is authentic or not. It is a bracelet made from solid silver that have on front the edelweiss and back is marked Schorner 16. PZ. A. B. W and a date 24.09.1939. Also have the marks 835 for silver and another marks 13 VI and a bow with an arrow. Thank you in advance

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I know these were popular with the Allied forces. Not sure about nazi forces.. Well first you must look up to see if the unit existed.

So you mentioned ;

"marks 835 for silver and another marks 13 VI and a bow with an arrow"

Could you show a good photo of these marks. Could be makers mark and might help with dating.......

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Thank you for your reponse Mr. Gaspare I search for information and the only result is this: The name on the bracelet I think is for Ferdinand Schörner the general who commanded the 98th Mountain Regiment in the invasion of Poland in 1939. Also the regiment marked on bracelet is
16.Ersatz Panzer Abwehr Kompanie Infanterie Regiment 95 that have in charge the 98th Mountain Regiment in Poland invasion. The date 24.09.1939 is the date near Warsaw surrender so it makes sense. Also the marked 835 is for this period but I don't know what is mean 13 VI and the bow with an arrow.

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Last edited by Cotoroanta; 08/10/2023 04:46 AM.
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Try researching Italian silver makers for VI13 hallmark.


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Thank you for you're answer but near silver mark is a crescent and also 835 I still think is german and the bow and arrow looks like a mark used by panzer regiments and I think 13 VI is a date and not a silver mark but what date ???

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As you wish. Research or not. 13 refers to the silversmith VI refers to the province. There is a lot of information on the subject. It's up to you to sort out if it's a period piece or not.


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Thank you once again for answer but italians don't have 835 for silvermark only Germany, Netherland Austria and Portugal

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From what I read that is incorrect. Look up, Hallmarks of Italian Silversmiths. 20th. century. The information is there.


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That information on 835 was from one site. Other sites don't mention 835.

VI was for Vicenza.


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Please post a clear photo of the writing inside the bracelet please.

Thanks

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I agree with Joe, he is correct.

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Yes Joe is on to something here,,,, more than likely Italian,,,wartime the used 800, rarely 835.. The lozenge does look Italian though... [ there is something before the 835 ]

- Here are the 'wartime marks'. with the 'fascio': fascist party symbol used when Mussolini was in power..

and your marks ...............

ItalB2.jpg (18.27 KB, 198 downloads)
ItalB.jpg (19.76 KB, 198 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 08/11/2023 02:15 AM.
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Hello and thank you for your answers i send another photos with the marks

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Last edited by Cotoroanta; 08/11/2023 07:41 AM.
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and the inside inscription Schorner 16.PZ.A.B.W 24.09.1939

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Last edited by Cotoroanta; 08/11/2023 07:57 AM. Reason: Inside
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It looks like 1938 to me.

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Hello maybe because of light but under magnifying glass I see 1939. See the photo

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Last edited by Cotoroanta; 08/11/2023 02:53 PM.
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Look at the '9' two letters to the left ... that is a nine. The last number looks like an almost complete '8'

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Well, it's a 8 or a 9. 1938 or 1939. Real or not, I do not know.
I do know I gave a girl in high school one just like it in 1966 with my name on it, Ed. The links were the same style and the head looked the same.
Good luck guys,
Ed

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You got it right, Ed. What we used to an "ID Bracelet" back in the day.

Someone soldered a too-big flower to the front and used an electric pencil to put a phony dedication on the back. No connection to Germany / WWII / etc.

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Hey Ed,

Was it the same type clasp? Thanks

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- Some observations :

Yeah ,, thats a 9.... , [could also be a 8 wink ]

That clasp has been around a long time. Both pre war and post war..

In the 70s we called it the same thing - I.D. Bracelet..

Like it or not that lozenge is in the postwar Italian fashion. IF it was during Mussolini's reign it would have the fascist symbol in the middle of it.. [ check the Silver Forums ]

True , the Italians mainly used 800 but used other metal contents for export, special orders, etc.

There IS some kind of mark before the 835 content mark..

Maybe thats not engraving. Maybe its 'Electro Pencil' gone over a few times. [Dave ] - [Electric 'engraver' ] They actually were around even before the war but for whatever reason they weren't used much.

- * It's a nice piece. Probably made in remembrance of ones service time..........

Last edited by Gaspare; 08/12/2023 02:38 AM.
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Mikee
Had several of these in the 60's, some girld did not like giving them upp
The one I gave to one gal had the same type of clasp, two short sides joined at the bottom with a stud and clip joiner.
Had the type that the spring clip slid into the head of the bracelet also makiing it look like no clasp.
I had one from high school, but lost it in the Colorado wildfire a few years back, along with everything else.
Ed

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Here is the older kind of bracelet and clasp.

Note the links are lighter - not the clunky flattened side type shown by the OP.

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Thanks Ed,

Oh my that must have been rough sorry you lost everything in that fire Ed. I sort of know how that feels, the X took must everything.

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I was in NYCs diamond district [ ALL things jewelry related ] on Thursday. Showed a guy a photo of the bracelet... He mentioned 'in his opinion' the flat type links would make it a postwar bracelet.. He also agreed that is not typical engraving with a hand graver but some sort of electric pencil device [ these guys can be wrong of course ]

The clasp is old style,,,but he said many like it and it is still used on bracelets today..

Last edited by Gaspare; 08/19/2023 03:50 PM.
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BINGO!!!

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Hey G,

Let me check my stuff. If I remember I think these flat links, made pre war as well. i could be wrong as well lol. Get back to you.

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Here you go, many different style of flat links but they did make them pre-war. These are from 1936. My guess is they really don't know about all things jewelry related lol. But really who does lol

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One more.

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They are real close Mikee thats for sure! The guy was just saying its a more modern type link... He was an old guy but they too can make mistakes!!

Nice photos,,,what else you got there??

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Close, but no cigar, IMO, Gaspare.

That heavy slab-sided bracelet that started this is something I think of as a 50's - 70's style. Remember the guys in high school who wore black leather jackets and always sat in the back row ? They wore them, along with metal heel taps so they made noise in the hall.

Add to that the electric pencil etch and the slightly-too-large flower soldered on the front and you have the low grade almost-Nazi junk this poster has been showing us since he joined in 2019.

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G, Thank you for the clarification, that's what I gathered.

Dave, you are correct it isn't an exact match I know that. I was only making a point that flat links were produced during the period. All the best!

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I agree, Mikee,

You'll probably find Roman ones in Italian museums.

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Hey Mikee,,,,what other photos could you show us from that magic catalog of yours?? Bracelets, cigg cases,, Watch fobs,, Mens rings of course,, Stick pins etc.

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G,

I have lots of reference material with all of the things you mentioned. It takes time to find it then go through it.Thanks for asking.


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