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Good Lord! that Brenner folder pocket knife might be a bit hunky but what a beauty!! I guess it now resides with your friend 'Mr.K.',,,,lucky guy!!


Thanks much for all your research and sharing it with us.

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"Mr. K." has told me about the knives and knife catalog collections of Horst Brunner, Switzerland. "When he passed away his collection went to the Victorinox Museum at Ibach, Switzerland".

"Mr. K." also told me "Brunner had also a tremideous number of Musterbücher". The BRENNER knife is probably at the museum, but I will ask "Mr. K." of Germany.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/25/2024 05:03 PM.
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Both C.Wetzel and Chevalier are awarded the Great Thread Badge for their significant contributions the GDC forums contents.

Congratulations to both !

Dave
Admin

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Thank you very kindly to the GDC community for the "Great Thread Badge".

"Mr. K." has sent me an email about the BRENNER knife: "Yes, it is in the collection of Victorinox."


Best Regards, C. Wetzel-20609

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Congratulations!

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Congratulations to our members C.Wetzel and Chevalier who are alwys on the go and are extremely exerienced.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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The BRENNER (old wooden bathtub) GRAFENBERG / GRAEFENBERG / GREFENBRG, maker's mark is not listed in Goin's 1998 edition or J. Anthony Carter's 2015 edition collector reference books.

Note the spelling on blade "GRAEFENBERG" and the sheath "GRAFENBERG" are different.

I remembered my advanced knife collector friend from Germany, "Mr. K." had told me about this high-quality maker over a year ago and noted one on the popular auction site for sale.

Listed as German 19th century hunting knife, this Jagdmesser is not cheap at $1500.00 USD.

Web capture_27-1-2024_18339_www.ebay.com.jpeg (43.54 KB, 163 downloads)
BRENNER (old wooden bathtub) GRAEFENBERG maker's mark
Web capture_27-1-2024_18171_www.ebay.com.jpeg (37.96 KB, 163 downloads)
Jagdmesser with BRENNER (old wooden bathtub) GRAEFENBERG maker's mark
Web capture_27-1-2024_18646_www.ebay.com.jpeg (42.59 KB, 160 downloads)
BRENNER Jagdmesser sheath marked GRAFENBERG
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/27/2024 11:58 PM.
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On 07/22/2023 Mikee asked:

"Wetzel,

Can you get a clear closeup picture of the maker mark on the marking hammer? Thank you"

I brought up the original photo of the maker's mark on the saw blade, used the zoom, then "Web capture", then Microsoft Office Picture manager and here is the result.

Note that the maker's mark on the pruning blade is also in the photo. The mark maybe "PELZ" over "GREFENBERG"

Also note that the knife photo from Chevalier2022, shows "BRENNER" over "GREFENBRG" on one blade.

Web capture_29-1-2024_13397_mail.yahoo.com.jpeg (101.8 KB, 134 downloads)
PELZ tool, maker's mark on saw blade.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/29/2024 07:17 PM.
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Hey Wetzel,

Do you have an idea of what the picture mark is shown between Brenner and Graefenberg and on the last picture above Pelz? Thank you.

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Mikee,

as "Mr. K." noted: "This is the wonderful Brenner. And he had the wooden bathtub as makers mark".

The close up of the "PELZ" over "GREFENBERG" maker's mark looks like there may be some mark above PELZ, but I think it is pitting on the blade.

I will have to ask "Mr. K." if there is a mark for PELZ or just pitting.

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Great thank you

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From "Mr. K" in Germany:

"This is pitting. I am quite sure. Maybe there is a mark on other knives. This is the only item I have seen yet. Maybe there is one more coming in the future, maybe more informations on this maker. Therefor it would be helpful to look in the archives in this town. Pelz must have been a highest quality maker. Like Brenner. This tool is crazy! T"

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Great thank you

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Well, would you look and see what I found with the correct spelling of PELZ, GREFENBERG:

"the saleroom", auction of 25 May 2023.

Description:
Multifunctional tool
circa 1900, maker Pelz Grefenberg with crown, small hatchet, the head with strike initials "TS", in the handle are a saw, a knife as well as a pair of pruning shears, the handle scales made of horn, at the end of the handle fluted grip cheeks, very high-quality workmanship, slight signs of age, l total 28 cm.

Multifunktionswerkzeug
um 1900, Hersteller Pelz Grefenberg mit Krone, kleines Beil, der Kopf mit Schlaginitialen "TS", im Griff befinden sich eine Säge, ein Messer sowie eine Strauchschere, die Griffschalen aus Horn, am Griffende kannelierte Griffbacken, sehr qualitätvolle Verarbeitung, geringe Altersspuren, L ges. 28 cm.

C. Wetzel-20609 notes: A "Crown" mark or pitting? let's see what "Mr. K" thinks of the last photo, it could still be pitting, and the seller could be mistaken but the bottom of the "Crown" looks straight. To quote Mildred Clark "Research is subject to change".

Web capture_29-1-2024_184712_www.the-saleroom.com.jpeg (89.25 KB, 149 downloads)
Multifunctional tool circa 1900, maker Pelz Grefenberg with crown
Web capture_29-1-2024_19218_www.the-saleroom.com.jpeg (54.65 KB, 146 downloads)
Multifunctional tool circa 1900, maker Pelz Grefenberg with crown
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/30/2024 12:28 AM.
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I sent an email to "Mr. K." with the above maker's mark on the saw blade then sent another photo of the pruner blade I enlarged:


"I used the zoom on the original photo you sent of the pruner blade, then Web capture, then Microsoft Office Picture Manager and there may be a crown to the left of PELZ, GREFENBERG.

The seller noted there is a crown".

"Mr. K." sent his reply: "Maybe you are right. That could be a mark! T"


"Mr. K." then sent an email that he would ask his friend who is the owner of this massive antique Forestry tool, if there is a crown mark.

Web capture_30-1-2024_1835_mail.yahoo.com.jpeg (93.13 KB, 124 downloads)
PELZ, GREFENBERG, pruner blade
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/31/2024 06:29 PM.
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I just received an email from "Mr. K.":

"Calvin you are right!!! There is a mark. I cannot belief it. W_ _ _ _ sent me this a couple minutes ago."


C. Wetzel-20609 notes: I believe this photo from the owner is the PELZ, GREFENBERG with crown mark on the pruner blade.

Web capture_4-2-2024_162121_mail.yahoo.com.jpeg (29.18 KB, 102 downloads)
PELZ, GREFENBERG with crown.
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It really looked like a maker mark to me lol that's why I asked so thank you much for following up. Awesome!

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Thanks to Chevalier2022,

for his outstanding research work on this Forestry tool along with the advanced knife knowledge of "Mr. K." and Mikee's request for a closeup of the maker's mark, we found the spelling variations of Grafenberg / Graefenberg / Grefenberg / Grefenbrg, and that helped further our knowledge of "Messerschmiede: BRENNER V. / PELZ E."

C. Wetzel-20609

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/05/2024 03:04 AM.
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"Mr. K." sent an email and some photos.

His knife collectors club will have their SAMMLERTREFFEN (collector meeting) soon and will have a discussion of the BRENNER (wooden bathtub) and PELZ (crown) marks.

"Mr. K." has sent a photo of the BRENNER mark on the knife from the Horst Brunner collection in the Victorinox Museum at Ibach, Switzerland.

He also sent an image of an old postcard from GRAFENBERG and in the lower left corner can be seen a small, high back, wooden bathtub.

The "wooden bathtub" with the high back, seems to be a very small size and is probably for an infant or small child, unless it has another unknown use.

IMG_2103.jpg (31.83 KB, 69 downloads)
BRENNER mark on the knife from the Horst Brunner collection in the Victorinox Museum at Ibach, Switzerland.
IMG_2107.jpg (54.99 KB, 65 downloads)
Old postcard from GRAFENBERG and in the lower left corner can be seen a wooden bathtub.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/07/2024 07:25 PM.
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Wetzel,

IMO the Graefenberg with wooden bathtub mark and the Grefenberg with crown mark are two different manufacturers. They both have different registered trade marks.



On the postcard under the bath tub picture.What is written?

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Mikee posted: "IMO (in my opinion) the Graefenberg with wooden bathtub mark and the Grefenberg with crown mark are two different manufacturers." "They both have different registered trade marks."

This is correct, as 1st noted on the previous page by Chevalier2022, these two makers are listed (Circa mid-1870's) as "MESSERSCHMIEDE: BRENNER V. / PELZ E." in Freiwaldau (now JESENIK, a town in the Czech Republic).

Grafenberg is a small hamlet of Freiwaldau.

The postcard writting under the wooden objects, appears to be "Verlag M. J. Goitwald, Freiwaldau" (Publisher M. J. Goitwald, Freiwaldau).

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/07/2024 09:21 PM.
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I found the association between the wooden bathtub and Grafenberg is the spa at Grafenberg.

Vincenz Priessnitz (1799-1851), son of a peasant, who developed cures by using cold spring water to heal various ailments and founded the first hydrotherapy spa at Grafenberg.

I found there is a You Tube video, and in the video, it shows an actor as Vincenz Priessnitz offering a brush to a woman in a wooden high back bathtub.

Web capture_7-2-2024_171517_www.bing.com.jpeg (27.94 KB, 34 downloads)
You Tube video, an actor as Vincenz Priessnitz offering a brush to a woman in a wooden high back bathtub.
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/07/2024 10:41 PM.
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Wetzel,

Awesome, it has all come together.

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