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I have acquired a type of German hunting knife that was also available during the Great War about 1915-1918. The knife is marked "ANTON WINGEN JR., FABRIK FEINER STAHLWAREN, SOLINGEN" and on the reverse is marked "DEUTSCHER BRUMMER" with "(D. R. G. M.)" underneath and artillery shell above with "42er". This Anton Wingen Jr. makers mark is found on page 569 of "German Knife and Sword Makers 1850-1945" by J. Anthony Carter and is listed as mark # 1. This knife was acquired from Canada.

I have found two knives with another variation of this knife, with the # 4 makers mark that has the "Othello head with shoulders" and was registered in 1917. Both of these knives have a brown snap button on the sheath. The knives with the # 1 Anton Wingen Jr. makers mark have a black snap button with a "snowflake" design on the button.

These knives were carried during the Great War in the 1915-1918 period with lots of period pictures to prove this fact. Although most were probably used for camp knives cutting meat and cheese and limited use on patrols and trench raids. These knives were also sold after the war for hunting in memory of past war service.

This knife was also available and listed in a 1930's Anton Wingen Jr. catalog and these knives have "(Ges. Geschutzt)" below "DEUTSCHER BRUMMER" instead of "(D. R. G. M.)" and have a black snap button that has no design?. I do not know what makers mark these knives have but would guess it is the # 6 makers mark with "ANTON WINGEN JR." above a standing knight with sword and "SOLINGEN" underneath.

These knives were also recreated in 1988 by Anton Wingen Jr. and thankfully are marked with the "Othello head with no shoulders" over "OTHELLO, ROSTFREI" and "Handmade by Anton Wingen jr., Solingen Germany".

Also note that in the 1915-1918 period and maybe later, these knives were also made by J. H. Becker, Solingen. See J. Anthony Carter page 92.

IMG-0837.jpg (54.87 KB, 451 downloads)
Makers mark side.
IMG-0838.jpg (63.14 KB, 447 downloads)
reverse side
Anton Wingen Jr. makers mark # 4 with brown snap button 001.jpg (47.19 KB, 447 downloads)
Anton Wingen Jr. with # 4 makers mark Reg. 1917 and brown snap button
2 (2) Anton Wingen Jr. 1930's Catalog.jpg (35.73 KB, 447 downloads)
1930's Anton Wingen Jr. catalog
1988 DEUTSCHER BRUMMER recreation 001.jpg (130.65 KB, 448 downloads)
1988 recreation of pre-1920's knife
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Wetzel,

Very interesting thank you.

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Mikee, your welcome.

I wanted one of these knives ever since I read about them in "German Knife and Sword Makers, 1850-1945" by J. Anthony Carter. In this book they also note; "Plain-bladed knives are also known".

I also have seen and liked your post of 11/15/2013 on page 5 of "Hunting, Forestry and Shooting Forum" under the thread; "WW1 nice stag grip fighting knife". Shown on this thread are two other Anton Wingen Jr. knives, the " Mein Lebensretter" (Registered 1915), and the "Nahkampfer".

I have also seen a knife similar to the "Deutscher Brummer" with another patriotic design; "UNSERE SIEGER".

My friend, Mr. Kashammer of Germany, has a plain-bladed knife by "Gebr. Muller, Stuttgart" with a new sheath that his friend made for him.

There is a great Russian site: копанина.рф.

And a great French site: lagrandeguerre.1fr1.net

IMG_4872.jpg (31.83 KB, 412 downloads)
Gebr. Muller, Stuttgart
IMG_4875.PNG (167.94 KB, 411 downloads)
Gebr. Muller, Stuttgart (mark)
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I wanted to post a picture of the # 4 maker's mark of Anton Wingen Jr. Solingen, Registered in 1917.

Note # 4 maker's mark: "Othello head with shoulders" and to the right, "Anton Wingen Jr., Solingen".

Note the scabbards with the brown snap buttons have 3 hollow back rivets on the back of scabbard to secure the leather belt strap.

Also note that the knife pictured from the 1930's Anton Wingen Jr. catalog has different German letters on the "Deutscher Brummer" etch, note that the capital letters "D" & "B" and also the letter "h" have no extended line at the bottom of the letters as compared with the original etch.

big_2500-photo-5 Othello head with shoulders.jpg (58.04 KB, 393 downloads)
# 4 Anton Wingen Jr. makers mark, Registered 1917, "Othello head with shoulders, Anton Wingen Jr. Solingen", as pictured on the knife with brown snap button.
8_628 Othello, Deutscher Brummer.jpg (14.1 KB, 393 downloads)
"Deutscher Brummer", "42er" with the # 4 makers mark of Anton Wingen Jr. Note: hand carving on handle and replaced pommel cap.
scaled-400x253-00637377 42CM Brummer.jpg (110.5 KB, 394 downloads)
The namesake for the etch on these knives is the 42cm artillery cannon as pictured on a German postcard from the Great War 1914-1918.
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Thank you for sharing your "Deutscher Brummer" illustrations and information!

Originally Posted by C. Wetzel-20609
... This knife was also available and listed in a 1930's Anton Wingen Jr. catalog and these knives have "(Ges. Geschutzt)" below "DEUTSCHER BRUMMER" instead of "(D. R. G. M.)" and have a black snap button that has no design?. I do not know what makers mark these knives have but would guess it is the # 6 makers mark with "ANTON WINGEN JR." above a standing knight with sword and "SOLINGEN" underneath. ...

I am off from home and have no access to my complete archieves right now. Anyway on my computer I am listing a 1930 Anton Wingen folder with this illustration:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

More than one decade has passed since the end of WWI, noone is being alerted that WWII might begin sometime under NSDAP/Nazi regime. So note Anton Wingen's description as "beliebtes Pafadfindermesser" (in English: pupular boy scout knife)!

Originally Posted by C. Wetzel-20609
... Also note that in the 1915-1918 period and maybe later, these knives were also made by J. H. Becker, Solingen. See J. Anthony Carter page 92.

Anton Wingen Jr. was one of very few Solingen cutlers with an own drop forge for forging their own blade blanks. Such 'J.H. Becker' marked "Deutscher Brummer" knives surely were being made under contract by Anton Wingen cutler exclusively for J.H. Becker. Even if Wingen's DRGM protection rights might have been expired, making dies for such a blade pattern would not have been an economicly task for competing other Solingen forges.

regards
chevalier2022

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Chevalier,

the 1930's catalog picture with description is great. This knife would make a great knife for camping as they are well made and stronger than the average Nicker.

I also thought there must have been a relationship between Anton Wingen Jr., Solingen and J. H. Becker, Solingen.

Thank you very kindly for your information.

Regards, C. Wetzel-20609

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The 1930's Anton Wingen Jr. "Deutscher Brummer" catalog picture shows the term "Ges. Geschutzt", pronounced "guess-shutst," the term is an abbreviation of gesetzlich geschutzt, a German phrase that translates as "legally protected" or "copyrighted." and was used since 1899.

The D.R.G.M. signifies "Deutsche Reich Gebraumeister" and is a design or use patent somewhat similar a "Registered" mark that provides an initial three years protection extendable for another three years to six maximum. These were first issued starting in 1891 and were discontinued after WWII (1945).

I have never seen an actual example of the Anton Wingen Jr. "Deutscher Brummer" with "(Ges. Geschutzt)" and it is possible it was only used on the 1930's catalog picture and the actual knives had "(D. R. G. M)" and were not different from the original production of these knives, except for maybe the scabbards.

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„D.R.G.M.“ – „D.R.P.“ – „GES.GESCH.“ - "D.R.G.M. ANGEM." … such markings are showing up occasionally on knives, edged weapons and other items and are proving property rights of the owner, mostly of the manufacturer.

Rights for inventions could be protected as ‚intellectual property‘, since the (German) Imperial Patent Office („Kaiserliches Patentamt“) was established by law in 1877.
Everybody could apply for a „D.R.G.M“ (Deutsches Reichsgebrauchsmuster – ‚utiliy right‘, small/petty patent, low invention step) or a „D.R.P.“ (Deutsches Reichspatent – German Imperial patent).

The Imperial Patent Office confirmed the inventor’s application prompt, anyway it took some time for the authorities to prove the application prior to granting the right with date and D.R.G.M. or D.R.P. number. Such protection right markings could be used legally only while the rights were being granted (… and the right had not yet expired).

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Therefore makers quite often used markings such as „D.R.G.M. angem.“ („angemeldet / applied for) or „GES. GESCHÜTZT“ (gesetzlich geschützt / protected by law), to indicate, that rights were not yet granted as ‚warning‘ for competing makers, not to copy such items.

Referring to Anton Wingen’s ‚DEUTSCHER BRUMMER' knife I am convinced that the 1930s catalog’s illustration with the „GES.GESCHÜTZT“ mark and missing 'D.R.G.M.' has a simple reason:
The handmade dies for printing the illustration were being crafted while the knife's design was made and while a protection right had been applied for. Anyway the right had not yet been granted by the Patent Office, ... probably sometime prior or during WWI. For new editions of sales catalogs or for promotional use the ‚original‘ die was used, there was no attention to the fact, that the D.R.G.M. had become effective in the meantime.

regards
chevalier2022

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Chevalier,

I found this on a Facebook post. If I am correct, the author thinks there are 3 versions of the "Deutscher Brummer 42er".

Grabendolch
February 14, 2017 ·
Grabendolch privat beschafft. ,,Deutscher Brummer '".
Ein sehr patriotischer Jagdnicker aus der Zeit des 1. Weltkrieges mit beachtlichem Ausmaß.
Der Griff besteht aus einem Stück Hirschhorn er ist oben mit einer schwarz lackierten Kappe versehen die mit 2 Stahlnägeln parallel gegenüber befestigt ist. Über dem Parierstück welches aus der Klinge heraus geschmiedet wurde ist der Griffring der ebenfalls geschwärzt ist. Klinge mit Parierstück ist in den Griff mit einer Art schwarzen Harz eingeklebt. Die Klinge ist vernickelt. Quartseitig befindet sich auf ihr die berühmte Ätzung der Granate des 42cm schweren Mörsers darunter der Schriftzug DEUTSCHER BRUMMER (D.R.G.M) ( es gibt auch Stücke mit (Ges.Gesch). Auf diesem hier beschriebenen befindet sich Terzseitig leider kein Hersteller. Bei den Varianten die es gibt ist immer Anton Wingen JR Solingen darauf zu finden ( Bilder folgen ). Leider kann ich zu diesem keine Scheide Präsentieren. ( folgt )

Der „Deutsche Brummer“ ist offenbar von Anton Wingen in drei unterschiedlichen Perioden gefertigt worden:

1. Periode während des Ersten Weltkriegs,

2. Periode Ende der 1930er / Anfang 1940er Jahre

3. Periode schließlich 1988 zum 100. Firmenjubiläum.

Verkaufsunterlagen von Wingen, vermutlich aus den späten 1930er Jahren, beschreiben dieses Messer mit der Artikel-Nummer 1724 / 12cm als „Pfadfindermesser“.
Diese Beschreibung erfolgte offenbar nicht zufällig: in einer Wingen-Werbung wird beschrieben, solche Messer können „lt. Verfügung des Reichsministers vom 2.5.1934 von Jedermann getragen werden“

Ich bedanke mich bei Stefan Rank bei der Zurverfügungstellung des Dolches. Ich besitze den selben aber in einer Minderem Qualität ich persönlich ordne meinen in die 2. Periode ein.
Vielen Dank!

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Note the last line from the German author of the above post; " Ich besitze den selben aber in einer Minderem Qualität ich persönlich ordne meinen in die 2. Periode ein."

I believe he is saying that his "Deutscher Brummer" is of lesser quality and from the 2nd period of production, 1930's / 1940's.

The picture he posted of his knife shows an etch that is similar to the 1930's catalog. See that the Capital letters "D" and "B" do not have the long-extended line at the bottom of the letters as seen in the original etch. Also, the letters look slimmer than the original. The Artillery shell maybe not as pointed as the original?

I have posted the picture of his knife from Facebook. The reverse of his knife posted on Facebook looks like there is no maker's mark.

The second picture is my "Deutscher Brummer" "42er" with "Anton Wingen Jr., Fabrik Feiner Stahlwaren, Solingen" maker's mark on the reverse.

2nd period, Deutscher Brummer, 1930's to 1940's 001.jpg (48.05 KB, 311 downloads)
2. period "Deutscher Brummer" "42er" etch.
IMG-0838.jpg (63.14 KB, 308 downloads)
The etch on my "Deutscher Brummer" "42er".
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Wetzel,

Good researches and observations at your end, thank you for sharing the additional information!

The facebook information in regards to three different 'periods of production' are generally matching with my knowledge.
Anyway I have no such 'original' knives.
My knowledge is from historic paperwork and communication with a small number of avid collectors and authors, which I am valuating as 'experts'.

Originally Posted by C. Wetzel-20609
... The picture he posted of his knife shows an etch that is similar to the 1930's catalog. See that the Capital letters "D" and "B" do not have the long-extended line at the bottom of the letters as seen in the original etch. Also, the letters look slimmer than the original. ...

I agree, so far I did not pay attention to such detailing.

Originally Posted by C. Wetzel-20609
... The Artillery shell maybe not as pointed as the original? ...

Yes, obviously this detailing of two not matching style of cartridge (pointed / rounded tip )is showing up another difference.

This illsutration is showing a German collecor friend's knife, matching with your piece:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


The following article is from a German gun magazine 'Deutsches Waffenjournal - DWJ" July 1988, featuring news on Anton Wingen's celebrating its centennial by introducing novelties, including the re-production of DEUTSCHER BRUMMER knife,the blades being forged with original dies.
The arcticle is decribing the knife as 'Grabendolch' (trench knife ?) and says that the re-procution is out of stainless steel ('rostfrei') , definively another difference to the two early 1900s periods knives!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

chevalier2022

Last edited by chevalier2022; 03/10/2023 10:23 AM. Reason: update
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Chevalier,

thank you for your help and observations on this thread.

I have reviewed the "Deutscher Brummer" etch on the image of the knife with the # 4 Anton Wingen Jr. maker's mark, "Othello head with shoulders, Anton Wingen Jr., Solingen" from the Miliariahunter.com site and the knife with the "J. H. Becker, Solingen" (Solingen is underlined) maker's mark, from Worthpoint.com and both of these knives have the original "Deutscher Brummer" etch from the 1st period of production.

I hope this thread will help anyone who is interested in these knives.

Regards, C. Wetzel-20609.

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Research notes:

Another difference of the Artillery shell etch is the outline of the 1st period original etch, is like a hair comb.

And the Artillery shell etch outline is smooth, on the 2nd period etch (1930's to 1940's).

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Wetzel,

A lot of really good information. Thank you

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I failed in eradicate some typing errors of my last post anyway I failed and will pass on updating that post.
I will continue with some more news soon.

chevalier2022

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chevalier2022,

Thank you as well for all the information.

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I must apologize any confusion wich my post # 357558 might have caused.
I cross-ched two additional German filess for possible supplements:

1 - Eugen von Halász de Darbas published in 1996 a well researched book 'Deutsche Kampfmesser' (in English: German Fighting Knives)
Two options of the "DEUTSCHER BRUMMER" knives are being featured:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

1.1 Anton Wingen Jr. cutler's early pattern knife illustrated with "left hand side" photo: starting letters "D..." and "B..." with large 'loop' style underlining, "D.R.G.M." mark (see post # #357544) , black color ferrule and black cap at the bottom end .
The sheath is said to be out of metal with both press button safety for the guard and the belt loop.
The description is mentioning "J.H. Becker Solingen" as optional cutler.
1.2 A `'private / civilian' option, illustrated from the reverse side, reverse blade side without etching (front / left hand blade side possible marking unknown!)
The sheath out of brown lether with silver color tip, press button safety for the guard, belt buckle safety for the knife handle

2 - Christian Méry 'Deutsche Kampfmesser 1914-1918' (German edition published in 2013 by Wieland Verlag), original edition 'German Combat Knives 1914-1945" published in France by 'Histoire & Collections
Two illustrations are showing up the front (left hand) side of two Anton Wingen knives.
One knife's blade has an identical mark to Eugen von Halasz's # 1,1 mark,
and the the sheath is of "German Nicker knife / Bavarian Dress Knife Style" i.e. a leather sheath without belt loop, and metal fittings both at top and bottom end.
The other knife's photo is of quite poor quality, you cannot identify the left hand side's blade marking, it is said to be "Deutscher Brummer".
The leather belt sheath is quite unique with two belt loops, blade cover of 'German Nicker style', with a pommel as decoration.

chevalier2022

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In post # 357479 C. Wetzel introduced the 'Deutscher Brummer' pattern with a quite modern script of GEBR. MÜLLER STUTTGART as distributer's mark.

By chance I sicovered in my files two illustrations from corresponding with a German collector friend in 2016.
Please not the different more vintage script of GEBR. MÜLLER STUTTGART.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

chevalier2022

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Chevalier,

thank you for the information from the collector books and pictures of the "Deutscher Brummer", "42er" by GEBR. MULLER, STUTTGART.

I sent e-mails to Herr Kashammer and Gebr. Muller, Stuttgart. I have two e-mails from Herr Kashammer, of Oberkirch.

To:
Calvin Wetzel

Wed, Mar 29 at 10:19 AM

"These two knives are very similar. Müller ordered very early knives from Tuttlingen. Maybe from the 1870s or 80s. And later also from Solingen. Around 1910s 20s and 30s. The knife shop is still there. The company was founded in the 1830s. Same time as Carl Holz was founded. They stopped very early making knives by themselves. Greetings, Thomas
You could be right. I also would date my knife from the 20th or 30th". (1920's to 1930's).

To:
calvin Wetzel

Wed, Mar 29 at 10:39 AM


"Here two sides from the anniversary book. I got this, when I visited the shop many years ago. Müller was founded in 1837. Greetings. T"


Herr Kashammer is dating his GEBR. MULLER, STUTTGART Jagdmesser to the 1920's to the 1930's.

Regards, C. Wetzel-20609,

IMG_4872.jpg (31.83 KB, 203 downloads)
GEBR. MULLER, STUTTGART
IMG_4875.PNG (167.94 KB, 203 downloads)
GEBR. MULLER, STUTTGART
IMG_1218.jpeg (85.75 KB, 203 downloads)
GEBR. MULLER, STUTTGART
IMG_1219.jpeg (112.63 KB, 203 downloads)
GEBR. MULLER, STUTTGART
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I would guess that the J. H. Becker, Solingen and the Gebr. Muller, Stuttgart, "Deutscher Brummer", "42er" knives were made on contract by Anton Wingen Jr., Solingen.

And maybe there were other companies that were distributors.

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I have acquired an OTHELLO, stag-handle, Jagdmesser that is similar, and probably the same pattern, but smaller than the Anton Wingen Jr. "Deutscher Brummer", "42er".

The knife has the maker's mark: "Othello head with OTHELLO" underneath, SOLINGEN, GERMANY, ROSTFREI" and this makers mark was used about 1937-1989.

The bottom metal scabbard chape is attached on the back with a rivet, and not a staple. I believe this knife dates about 1950-1970. The blade is 107 mm in length.

IMG-0940.jpg (69.51 KB, 204 downloads)
Anton Wingen Jr. "Deutscher Brummer", "42er" and Othello Jagdmesser.
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I bought 2 original "Deutscher Brummer" "42er" postcards, the actual photo postcard dated 1914 came from akpool GmbH, Berlin, Germany via LUFTPOST and has no writing on the back.

The other postcard came from Kennesaw, GA and has German writing on the back and is stamped.

IMG-1174.jpg (90.1 KB, 152 downloads)
German postcards.
IMG-1175.jpg (67.93 KB, 152 downloads)
German postcards.
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Originally Posted by C. Wetzel-20609
I have acquired a type of German hunting knife ... marked "ANTON WINGEN JR., FABRIK FEINER STAHLWAREN, SOLINGEN" and on the reverse is marked "DEUTSCHER BRUMMER" ...
This Anton Wingen Jr. makers mark is found on page 569 of "German Knife and Sword Makers 1850-1945" by J. Anthony Carter ...

I have found two knives with another variation of this knife ...

While researching for a different Anton Wingen Jr. knife I noticed in my archieves by chance an (unfortunately poor copy) of a WW 1 dated Anton Wingen Jr. sales catalog, illustrating three more options of this dagger style sheath knife along with this thread's 'DEUTSCHER BRUMMER' (ref.# 1724/12) knife:

# 1742/15 'MEIN LEBENSRETTER" ... in English 'my life-saver'
# 1725 'Drauf Rupprecht' ... in English 'Attack Rupprecht"
# 1739/11 'UNSER SIEGER' ... in English 'The Vanquisher / The Winner'

The ‚DRAUF RUPPRECHT‘ pattern is possibly referring to Crown Prince Rupprecht von Bayern (1869-1955), having signed an Army Order on October 19th, 1914 with the motto ‚Drauf! – Rupprecht Kronprinz von Bayern‘.


regards
chevalier2022

Last edited by chevalier2022; 09/19/2023 04:24 PM. Reason: completed information
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The Anton Wingen Jr. models, "Mein Lebensretter" (Registered 1915), and the "Nahkampfer" that I have seen, have a double guard.

I wanted to buy an example of the "Mein Lebensretter" model, but the two examples listed in the last year on the popular auction site were in poor condition.

Finding a good example with a sheath in nice condition is best.

Please, if you can, post the sales catalog, Chevalier.

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Originally Posted by C. Wetzel-20609
... Please, if you can, post the sales catalog, Chevalier.

I received that poor copies in 2009 and already asked my friend, if he still knows the source of that copies. Possibly the original sales catalog is existing. If so I will try to get updated clear scans or photos.

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My collector friend finally is tating, that he has misplaced the original 1915 Anton Wingen jr. sales catalog, that he had copied for me long time ago.
Thus I can post the quite bad scans which I received that time:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

regards

chev22

Last edited by chevalier2022; 11/02/2023 08:05 AM.
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Seeing this 1915 period reference is most informative.

1st the title: "Stilets, Beste Kriegs. und Verteidigungswaffe, fur Soldaten" (Daggers, Best Wars. and Defensive Weapons, for Soldiers) is my rough translation.

Next, we see the model Nr. / Blade length and blade etch title. Also, we see the price per Dozen (Dutzend).

Also note the variations of the sheaths that are leather with metal chape on the bottom. Not shown are the period metal sheaths.

I would like to express my thanks to chevalier2022, you have made my day.

PS I have never seen the Nr. 1725/11 "Drauf Rupprecht" model.


Best regards, Calvin

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 11/02/2023 05:10 PM.
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I am pleased that my cantribution does satisfy you ... and your translation is excellent!
# 1725/11 "Drauf Rupprecht" model was unknown to me too, until I re-discovered this comoed sales catalog.

regards
chev23

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Here is the link to the Russian site with pictures of these knives: https://xn--80aaxgqbdi.xn--p1ai/publ/1/nemeckie_boevye_nozhi_1914_1945/8-1-0-861

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Here is the link to the French site with pictures of these knives. This site takes about 1-2 minutes to upload the pictures : https://lagrandeguerre.1fr1.net/t122591-les-couteaux-poignards-non-reglementaires

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 11/03/2023 12:00 AM.

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