Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
R
Reibert Offline OP
OP Offline
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
This is an impressive picture and Im sure, some guys of you know it well, am I right ?

It shows an wounded Lieutenant of the Waffen-SS, taken as prisoner in Normandy.

Does anybody knows more bout the circumstances, the pic was shot then, (date, place, and fate of this soldier) ?

Note the countenance of this man !

Very interesting, that an other captured soldiers wearing an uniform of the Wehrmacht-Luftwaffe together with an SS-belt !

7.JPG (68.74 KB, 1068 downloads)
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
R
Reibert Offline OP
OP Offline
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
2

8.JPG (91.18 KB, 1058 downloads)
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
R
Reibert Offline OP
OP Offline
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
3

9.JPG (66.96 KB, 1062 downloads)
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
R
Reibert Offline OP
OP Offline
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
4

11.JPG (102.98 KB, 1075 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
That series of photos was taken across the street from what is now the Mayor's office
in the town of Notre Dame de Cenilly, France. This is southwest of St Lo, on the D38 road and the prisoners were standing in front of the local haberdashery, being searched by Lt. Paul Unger of the 2nd Armored Division MP Company Unger was over 6 ft tall himself, but these giant SS prisoners made him look small in comparison. This info was published in my 3rd book now out of print, entitled 'Breakout at Normandy-The 2nd Armored Division in the Land of the Dead' (MBI pub. 1999). A new edition is planned with updates and additional photos-it should be out around Christmas time from Casemate pub.
Btw, I spoke with and visited the family of the late Lt. Unger in the 1990s and the MP armband he wears in the photo has been in my collection ever since. Unfortunately, he did not keep any SS souvenirs, but I did get an IC 2d class and some other common Nazi stuff from his family.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
Here's another in the series taken by LIFE photographer Rober Capa who was attached to the 2nd Armored during the Breakthrough. The photo was made around 27 July, 1944. This photo enabled the idenyification of the location. The word MERCERIE on the building at right means men's clothing store. The building across the road at upper right is actually on the far side of the D38 road. It was a boys' school in 1944 and is not the town Mairie (Mayor's office). While researching my 'Breakout' bok, I met a French historian named Jean Torchio, whose father libed IN Notre Dame de Cenilly in 1944. This helped solve some research mysteries.

Unger.jpg (69.23 KB, 953 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
sorry I mis spelled identification-Also the building with ivy growing on it is at upper left, not upper right. That is the Mayor's office.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
Here's a diagram which will appear in the new edition of Breakout. The initial photo on this post, showing prisoners standing shoulder to shoulder was taken at 3, from the direction shown. The 2 is approximately where Capa stood facing northeast across the road, with the boy's school in the background of his photo-he aimed at a 45 degree angle facing from SW to NE.
The 2 should be more accurately place just above the 3. 1 is a spot where another famous photo was taken, looking into the courtyard behind the church, where scores of prisoners were being held.

NotreDameMap.jpg (50.77 KB, 948 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
If you Doubting Thomases still aren't convinced, here's a photo of the same group of PWs, taken from the history of the 2nd Armored Division. you can see the plane tree smock, the dot pattern tunic and the officer in Luft para smock wearing an SS belt. The man with the bandage around his head has his back to the camera. The story of how he was captured and why his head is bandaged is also in my book-I interviewed the man who captured him.
The MP standing at right with hands on hips is Bruce Bodin.

BodinPic.jpg (54.32 KB, 998 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
Here's another photo which has appeared in a number of books-the guy in the Kubel is W-SS.
2nd Armored guys are examining his MP40 and ignoring him. There is also moving picture footage of this PW at the same location. This was taken right in front of the Presbytery shown in the diagram, camera facing SW. The censor has obliterated the shoulder patches of the GIs.

NotrePW.jpg (62.32 KB, 963 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Do we have to buy the book to 'hear' the story? Wink

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47
G
Offline
G
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 47
I purchased the book and read many stories that would have been lost to time if it wasn't for the author recording them. Buy it.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 152
C
Offline
C
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 152
MP Bodin's pose/expression is classic !

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
The look on the SS man with the head wound is like "I can't believe this is happening to me".
Great photo's thanks


You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time


Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,612
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,612
Likes: 1
quote:
Originally posted by Ed Martin:
The look on the SS man with the head wound is like "I can't believe this is happening to me".
Great photo's thanks


Can we just hear what happened to this proud SS Officer?

-serge-

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Perhaps GJD52 will share the story with us..he bought the book. Cool

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
Why hasn't Reibert who started this thread even commented on the info I posted? It gives me the feeling that he doesn't believe my evidence.

It also required some time and effort to post the images and info.

The famous Capa photos have been published in numerous books and magazines since WWII ended but no other researcher ever discovered where they were taken and the specifics about who was involved. The fact that nobody acknowledges my discoveries tends to make me think that they really aren't convinced that the info is real.
My entire book was a significant revelation of what really transpired in the St Lo breakthrough and the pivotal role played by the 2nd Armored Division, which was awarded seven Presidential Citations in one week! Yet the pop history community wants to continue believeing that General Patton's Third Army won the victory at St Lo. Patton's troops didn't even get into the fight until August 1st 1944, at which time First Army had already blown the German Seventh Army Front wide open.
The academic fraternity of established historians don't like it when information they didn't already know about gets published.
Their reaction is to disregard and ignore it because "if it was significant, we would have already known about it."
This attitude is very real and has resulted in the snubbing of my books and research by the established hierarchy of historians.
This reality has caused a lot of sorrow for me because imagine your life's work being disrespected instead of acclaimed.
It rather s*cks.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 17
S
Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 17
I applaud you, well done Mark...why would anyone not believe you or your research? Your reputation is impeccable and speaks for itself...volumes in fact....cheers, Ryan

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Mark, I don't know if Reibart was looking for a debate, I think he may have just been looking for some information..

Regardless, it is interesting information and perhaps you can tell us the story of what happened here, for the benefit of those who don't have access to your book.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 621
Still not a word from Reibert-not even 'thanks'.
What would YOU think, if you posted the info above?
Why do I bother?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Mark,

Why let one poster bother you when there is a forum full of those who appreciate what you do?

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,215
Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,215
Mark,

I do appreciate your post. In fact, I really enjoy every post that you take the time to make for us! You are a well known Author, and I really do want to say Thank You for all of your research, interviews with Veteran's, and postings with pictures. I already have two of your books, and plan on buying more. I am glad to hear that you have a new edition of Breakout coming, and intend to buy one as soon as I can.

Thank You!

Chief


"Gott Zur Ehr Dem N�chsten Zur Wehr"
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,049
A
A J Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,049
Has it crossed anyones mind that he (Riebert) might be travelling on vacation or even ill
Great info Mark but am sure there will be a perfectly good reason why he hasn't responded
It took you (Mark)a week to respond intially to his question you will recall

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,286
If the story will not be told, I will ask for the book for Christmas and paraphrase it myself.

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,612
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,612
Likes: 1
quote:
Originally posted by Doug Kenwright aka "KURSK":
If the story will not be told, I will ask for the book for Christmas and paraphrase it myself.


Thanks Doug. It's tough times in the hobby now but being a collecting comrade shouldn't be so hard.

-serge-

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 486
Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 486
I'm waitin' for the book! Since I finally got to go to Normandy, albeit for a very limited period---and almost run over by my own rental car when visiting the Omaha Beach Museum----I have a renewed interest in the campaign.

Steve Z.


A day without beer is just another day you have to remember.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
R
Reibert Offline OP
OP Offline
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
quote:
Originally posted by M. Bando:
Why hasn't Reibert who started this thread even commented on the info I posted? It gives me the feeling that he doesn't believe my evidence.

It also required some time and effort to post the images and info.



Hi !

Im sorry, but I do not get any notifications in my e-mail box, if anybodys answering in one of my threads.
I do not know, why this does not work in GDC ...


On other sites I always get informations, whren any other member wrote in one of my threads !

Sorry, again !

Rgds.,

R.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
R
Reibert Offline OP
OP Offline
R
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 333
Ok, Guys !

The last minutes I read all other coments in this thread.

Thx. for all the informations.

In an other thread a "mate" wrote some not very nice words to me and now I know why and what he ment !

I am also member in many other sites and the guys there know me as a very helpful comrade.

Rgds.,

R.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
T
Offline
T
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
I concur that Marks book is well worth buying. I never new the 2nd Armored played such a unique role in the Breakout.

There is also a really neat 2nd Armored Division poster that was issued - I guess - just after the wars end, that lists their battle record. If you get the book it's worth getting the poster as well. They appear on ebay occasionally. The bottom line of text on the poster lists the German units they fought - including the Waffen-SS units.






www.SSRelics.net

Silver Badge #400

Previously registered as TonyS
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 563
D
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 563
mark bando is a rare gem. not only does he know his gear - the uniforms and such - but the backgrounds of those who wore or used it. I know almost nothing of a battle's particulars, but as a professional journalist I know fine writing when I read it. I've coauthored a military history myself, and recognize the vast labors that go into chronicling something like 'normandy.'

most collectors have little idea of this information-gathering process; not their fault, of course. but it's a Big Deal, believe me. for a rough idea, imagine you're a police 'cold case' detective and have to work a case literally for years -- only you're not getting paid for it. and oh by the way, airfare and any other expenses? you can forget them, too.

mark, be aware there are many who appreciate your well-wrought and historically important work. even if they don't chime in. keep up the yeoman work!


inimicus
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2
M
Offline
M
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2
Originally Posted By: Reibert


In his book "Gotz von Berlichingen" Jean Claude Perriegault identify this proud man as Untersturmfuhrer Kurt Peters, III Batalion, Regiment 37, Gotz von Berlichingen.

Sure, he was captured in Notre Dame de Cenilly beetween 27 to 29 July 1944, what was his fate?

Blume

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,115
Offline
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,115
Can you post the picture?


Fred



"Panzer vorwärts!"
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2
M
Offline
M
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2
The picture is already in this thread, is the 3rd picture on page 1, where we can see the M.P. L.t. Paul Unger on the 2nd Armored Division frisking an offizier on th Waffen SS during Operation Cobra in Notre Dame de Cenilly.
Sorry, but I can't post the picture, I don't know why, i hope to do it!

Best regard
blume

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 139
G
Offline
G
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 139
Very interesting and informative thread!


Looking for anything related to KC winner Johannes "Hans" Briegel and the Fsch. Pz. Gren Rgt 2 "HG"
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 164
Likes: 5
C
Offline
C
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 164
Likes: 5
My aunt's brother-in-law, Roy Morse (1920-1984)

Roy Morse, WWII, 2nd Armored Division, "Hell on Wheels", Jan. 1942 through Apr. 1946.

Roy Morse suffered from "Shell Shock" after the war and his M-3 fighting knife was found in the basement of my aunt's house by me on Sep. 2, 2015, on the 70th anniversary of the end of WWII.

The knife was found, braze welded to the tang and cross guard and is in relic condition. It is an unmarked blade but maybe an Imperial with black spacer at top of the handle.

Roy Morse's M-3 fighting knife and rare 1943 M-6 Barwood sheath is pictured.

Photo credit: Noel M. (Wetzel)-20833 Cole.

Roy Morse's M-3 fighting knife (1).jpg (30.91 KB, 48 downloads)
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 02/17/2023 01:04 AM.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,005
Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,005
Bando deserves a loud 'kudo' from both historians and collectors!

Texas


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,231,246 SS Bayonets
1,731,570 Teno Insignia Set
1,093,767 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Can you pls help identify?
by lakesidetrader - 03/21/2023 12:47 PM
Luft. Helmet questions.
by Dutchman - 03/19/2023 11:54 PM
Luft. Medal questions.
by Dutchman - 03/19/2023 11:51 PM
ORG. TODT arm band.
by Dutchman - 03/19/2023 11:45 PM
Need info on this Solingen knife
by Agzo79 - 03/19/2023 01:31 PM
Latest New Posts
Unknown ring supposed to be italian
by Ric Ferrari - 03/22/2023 07:39 AM
Need info on this Solingen knife
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 03/22/2023 03:16 AM
SA ROHM COPPER SCABBARD & EAGLE?
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 03/21/2023 10:50 PM
Can you pls help identify?
by lakesidetrader - 03/21/2023 12:47 PM
Organisational Badges with docs
by Don Scowen - 03/21/2023 05:59 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,427
Posts325,644
Members7,323
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
7 members (Ric Ferrari, lmrobil, krismeda, Paul, Oleg67, polop, Don Scowen), 64 guests, and 68 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5