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#49146 04/22/2010 04:59 AM
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wotan Offline OP
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Dear fellow collectors! Would you please classify this certain buckle of a member of any Werkschutz (factory protection force)?
Each help would be appreciated.
Regards,

WSch_a_r.jpg (67.56 KB, 102 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#49147 04/22/2010 01:22 PM
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perhaps those that have the ability to enhance the buckle by computer can give us a better pic to look at,,,hard to tell anything from this pic,, Confused

#49148 04/22/2010 06:56 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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militarymania, thank you for looking at the buckle. But this is the best I can do, a highest possible resolution scan.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
#49149 04/22/2010 09:37 PM
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Nothing comes to mind but I will have a look about.

--dj--Joe


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#49150 04/26/2010 05:11 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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Thank you very much for looking. I personally assume it might be a brand of a firm which formed the front plate of this buckle. But the hard I ask and look I cannot find any firm (as large as to have a Werkschutz) with such a brand.
To me it looks like a star ("north-star"???)or a cross with a sword to the lower left. But I am not sure about that.
Any further help will be appreciated.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #348776 03/02/2021 03:49 PM
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Any luck finding out what the emblem was associated with?

--dj--Joe


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wotan #348780 03/02/2021 05:52 PM
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that patch on his left arm.. Looks to be the right spot and shape for the Werkschutz factory patch.. IF it is then the buckle is Werkschutz... But which factory is still the mystery....
Some can crop photo, enlarge, get it on the photo editor and try experimenting maybe get a clearer/better image.

wotan #348783 03/02/2021 11:02 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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Hello derjager and Gaspare, thank you for looking. The facktory where this Werkschuz memer was on duty remains still unanswered.
@ Gaspare, as the arm patch and the badge on the peaked cap are clearly Werkschutz there is no doubt.

I already did contact special german buckle collectors without luck.

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #348784 03/03/2021 06:22 PM
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Hi wotan,

I don't know if this symbol would be possible or correct for Werkschutz, I don't know that much about them. But to me from what little I do see, it looks to be a runic symbol, maybe two. Just trying to help.Best!

wotan #348785 03/03/2021 07:54 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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Hello Mikee, thank you for looking and thinking about the buckle. What I have learned about members of Werkschutz is that although they mostly did wear a kind of standarized uniform (especially concerning the arm patch and the emblem on the paked cap) - which is the case here-, the buckle often had a direct connection to the works they did protect. If I remeber correct eg Volkswagen did have the VW emblem in their buckle or Heinkel the wheel with the wing.
So this special buckle should have a connex to one of the larger german works (I think small works did not have the money to let manufacture thier own buckles) but I never have seen tis emblem up to now.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #348786 03/04/2021 02:28 AM
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Wotan, Thank you for the information. I will look at all the brands that I have. Best!

wotan #348789 03/04/2021 02:57 PM
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thought I recognized the arm patch size/area in photo:

this was my collection . Sorry had to cut in half to be able to see anything:
Took me years to just get this stuff. Having to many things and not wanting to neglect adding to, I sold it to a old friend [complete] a few years ago who promised to keep adding to it.
anyway,,

,one thing I never had was any of the different factory buckles. They are really rare to find!

There is a topic on WAF about the badges,,,maybe a search on them and you might find the emblem,,,probably in the back of some of the manufacturers / trade guild booklets,,I'll check mine..
Maybe check in archives[?]..

GDCID.JPG (59.48 KB, 239 downloads)
GDC4.JPG (67.55 KB, 239 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 03/04/2021 02:58 PM.
wotan #348792 03/05/2021 12:38 AM
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wotan Offline OP
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Hello Gaspare, a nice collection you are showing us. Yes, the cloth badge you show in two variants is the certain arm badge.
I am very sorry that I cannot show here the full pic. But unfortunately even here there are crooks around (I eg had a hard discussion in another forum) who download pics from the net and show them in the net as they would be their own pics or even use them in publications. Which is a pity as hard gained and highly paid pics are simply downloaded and used by these crooks. Therefore I do show only cropped pics any more.

I did several tries, with scanner and photographing the buckle but it only became worse. Due to the photopaper structure it is impossible to get a better copy of the buckle.

Here the armbadge and the badge on the peaked cap as proof it is truely a Werkschutz member.
It looks that there is something written in the armbadge, above the emblem and perhaps this could give a hint to the certain works but how hard I try it is absolutely impossible to read.
Just for further information, there is nothing written on the reverse, no studio stamp, not the least hint to a region or something like this.

Regards,

armbadge.JPG (12.39 KB, 227 downloads)
peaked cap badge.JPG (8.26 KB, 227 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #348793 03/05/2021 03:24 AM
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Great collection, Gaspare.

I have some equivalent pins and badges from Norway.

J


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
wotan #348802 03/06/2021 08:12 PM
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thanks guys...

Wotan,, I have only heard of a factory,,an area,, a rank being hand embroidered on the patch,,never actually seen it,,,but that sure looks like there's something there!. Wow,,if that was just a bit clearer.. But he's wearing his cap , etc... Must be a great photo... Something on the emblem will eventually show up...

wotan #349392 05/23/2021 12:19 AM
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I wonder if a negative image of the buckle in question would show it better?

--dj--Joe


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wotan #349429 05/23/2021 08:25 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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Hello --dj--, thank you for your hint. I am no pc freak but looked through the possibilities I could find and there was no negative image possible. But I did pla a little with the possibilities I could find and here is the result:

Regards,

990103735_WSch_a_rAA.jpg (21.94 KB, 168 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #349545 05/27/2021 04:24 PM
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I have searched through numerous logos, day badges, buckle collections, etc.
Hard to figure what to type for a direct search. Four point star with a ray on the lower arm? A comet? Something I'm not seeing? smile Looks like there may be something at the center of the star. Or not.
Interesting for sure. Nagging tickle at the back of my mind that I have seen something like it somewhere.

--dj--Joe


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wotan #350461 07/08/2021 04:00 PM
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Online Content
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Interesting picture. Is it possible the buckle is for a Werkschutz detachment sporting the company’s logo?


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
wotan #350574 07/18/2021 07:04 PM
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I agree that it looks like something written at the top of the cloth arm badge. That would probably be a leading clue.
I could do a negative image with your permission but do not feel in this instance it would show up anything different than your last image.

--dj--Joe

I assume the collar tabs are no help.


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wotan #356827 12/30/2022 05:15 PM
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Wotan, I have a possible for the buckle in question.Verband fuer leibesuebungen in den evangelschen jungmannerbuenden. (National confederation of evangelist young men's league).
The emblem is an oak (branch and leaf) cross in a diamond shape within an oakleaf wreath.

I looked at numerous buckles from a side view. smile This one seems to fit. I will search for an image to post.

--dj--Joe


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wotan #356829 12/30/2022 07:50 PM
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Like this wink


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wotan #356832 12/30/2022 10:46 PM
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Yep, that's it Vern. I located examples on two different sites but they had digital watermarks and I hesitated to post them.
Nice image.

--dj--Joe


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wotan #356833 12/31/2022 05:45 PM
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well, thats not the buckle.. So , we know he is a Werkschutz member by the cap device and arm shield.. But the buckle so far not identifiable..

The arms of the cross are not equal,,they are almost like the Christian cross,,with something off to the left from the bottom.. Maybe even something at the top right of the cross.
I do know there were many factories that had the means to make their own insignia including buckles. I've seen one or 2 and they were big money..

Here;s the photo again. Wotan did a great job of teasing out what could be seen as I couldn't get much more out of it.. So the mystery continues.....

BB.jpg (15.18 KB, 86 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 12/31/2022 05:46 PM.
wotan #356874 01/04/2023 05:48 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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Hello gents, I appreciate the efforts after such a long time to solve the riddle. But unfortunately I also don´t think the evangelist oung menn bucke is the one I look for. As Gaspare has mentioned, the distances are differing. I still believe (like Gaspare) that it is an emblem of any firm but which one????
thank you again, regards,

buckle.JPG (46.94 KB, 69 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #356877 01/04/2023 11:00 PM
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It's definitely hard to tell with the angle and the lighting.
I tried a few things but don't have a program to get the angle or lighting correct.
Maybe we can get a conversation started or someone may see something and all will fall into place.
--dj--Joe

Untitled-Grayscale-01.jpg (14.5 KB, 69 downloads)

<BR>
wotan #356915 01/07/2023 02:47 PM
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wotan Offline OP
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Hello gentlemen, I have decided to let this buckle be shown by a friend in a german forum. A collector of buckles thought to see the ARADO logo in this buckle. Due to the minute details in the Werkschutz photograph I was not 100% convinced. See yourself:

BB.jpg (15.17 KB, 47 downloads)
230px-LSV_Arado_Warnemuende.svg.png (13.89 KB, 46 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #356916 01/07/2023 02:56 PM
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BUT then I looked for the original photograph in my albums and with a watchmakers lupe I could now (with the hint) read the arm emblem of the Werkschutz man:
Although there is a small defect in the photograph, I definately could read ARADO! So the riddle is solved. It is indeed a member of the Werkschutz of the ARADO airplane works.
Thank you all for care and your efforts, best regards,

4.JPG (16.76 KB, 45 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #356920 01/08/2023 01:39 AM
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Wow Congratulations!

wotan #356921 01/08/2023 04:08 AM
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Wotan, congratulations.
That would be one great buckle to collect.
Glad you got it resolved.

--dj--Joe


<BR>
wotan #356923 01/08/2023 03:31 PM
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Thanks Wotan,

Arado was a really interesting airplane manufacturer. They made some very interesting aircraft, including the BV 141 asymmetrical light bomber.

images.jpg (7.69 KB, 34 downloads)
wotan #356926 01/08/2023 07:56 PM
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Hell Dave, you mix something up. The Blohm and Voss BV141 was only a observer plane. Therefore the asymetrie so the observer was not hindered in his sight in any way. And as said produced by Blohm and Voss. ARADO did produce the first jet bomber Ar234.
Regards,

1200px-Arado_234B_1.jpg (139.4 KB, 28 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #356927 01/08/2023 08:32 PM
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From an old Manions catalog........

Arado.jpg (35.83 KB, 26 downloads)

[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
wotan #356928 01/08/2023 08:41 PM
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Arado did make a lot of different aircraft.
There sea plane series were really good sea planes with great lines.
Ed

wotan #356929 01/08/2023 10:58 PM
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Wotan you are correct - It was the BV 141

But looking at specs, they say it could carry 4 x SC50 bombs.

Dave


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