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#356392 11/13/2022 05:22 AM
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Verlangerungs-messer (extension-knife) is also known as the D'Estaing knife, said to be designed in about 1780 by Admiral D'Estaing for use aboard ship. It could be used as a table knife in the closed position or open for self-defence. It was used by the French, British, Germans, Swiss and others as a hunting knife. Offered in various designs. Offen called incorrectly a folding bowie knife. Pictured 1st (3 pictures) is my "E. Witte, Trier" Verlangerungsmesser, this fancy bolster model is similar to a "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen" model or a "Renz, St. Gallen" except it has the fancy bolsters at both ends. This knife may have not been made by E. Witte, Trier and he may have been the distributor. Next is made by A. Feist & Cie, Solingen, "LUNA" trademark. This knife with checkered horn handles was found to be tasty by some beetle larva. The blade is about 21.5 cm and about .5 cm short. Both were found on E-BAY.

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Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 11/13/2022 05:27 AM. Reason: Spelling
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1st picture is a "Renz" or "Carl Holz" type Verlangerungsmesser, with fancy bolsters, sold about 2013. Next picture is a "Renz, St. Gallen" Verlangerunsmesser and Taschenmesser, ex-collection of Mr. Kaeshammer of Oberkirch, Germany. 3rd picture is from the 1895 catalog of "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen", see upper right of picture and note Verlangerungsmesser with sheath, from Mr. Kaeshammer.

IMG_4870.jpeg (113.75 KB, 329 downloads)
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Dam!! really nice find!! Love it...

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Thank you very kindly. Mr. Kaeshammer of Oberkirch, Germany is an advanced knife collector and thinks my "E. Witte, Trier" Verlangerungsmesser is one of the best he has ever seen. He traded his "Renz, St. Gallen" to his brother.

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Here is another fancy bolster Verlangerungsmesser. It is marked "Gebruder Muller" and is ex-collection of Mr. Kaeshammer of Germany. It is pictured in the closed position.

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Here are two more fancy bolster Verlangerungsmessers. The 1st pictured is only marked "PATENT 19946" on the blade. The bolsters do not have the fine grooves as shown on the others. This knife has no button or visible lock and comes apart at the plain bolster side. It sold on Ebay for $747.79 with 13 bids on Mar. 6, 2022, even though there was no sheath and the blade had rust marks and the tip was damaged. The 2nd pictured Verlangerungsmesser is marked "Louis Hanau, Coln" and has a monogram on the less fancy bolster side. Note that "Coln" is the old German spelling of Cologne. This picture was from Mr. Kaeshammer of Germany who believes this example is from the mid to late 19th century.

Verlangerungsmesser-Ebay 001.jpg (52.2 KB, 285 downloads)
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 11/16/2022 08:20 PM. Reason: spelling
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1st picture is the Admiral D'Estaing knife as pictures in "The Knife And Its History", written on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of Victorinox. 2nd picture is from an original 1920's "Friedr. Herder Abr. Sohn, Solingen" catalog from the collection of C. Wetzel-20609 and is model Nr.2651 H. H. (Hirsch Horn) with a 20 cm blade. Note that the guard is part of the bolster and does not fold. 3rd picture is from the firm of "Wilhelm Weltersbach", model Nr. 40 with a folding guard. 4th picture is from A. Feist & Cie, Solingen, "LUNA" trademark. Note that this model Nr. 2732 Hh (Hirsch horn) has a folding guard and comes in two blade lengths, 22 und 26 cm.

D'Estaing folding knife 002.jpg (14.46 KB, 267 downloads)
Wilhelm Weltersbach, catalog 001.jpg (35.52 KB, 268 downloads)
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what great period adverts!!

Couple real classic fighting knife patterns!

Over the years I've as well as other have passed on these 'extension knives' and we probably shouldn't have . And, even though my knife mystery was solved thanks to you its nice to see the design goes way back.....

Wilhelm-Weltersbach,-catalog-001.jpg (26.59 KB, 263 downloads)
DSCN5624.JPG (62.89 KB, 263 downloads)
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Your French made "Bargeon, Inox", shell puller knife shown is a recent version made in the 1960's to 1970's. The shell puller type knives are as old as the cartridge itself and date to the 19th century. The 1912 August Stukenbrok catalog shows two types of shell puller knives made by J. Albert Schmidt. The 1st type is the "bolster" type. The 2nd type is the "curved blade with small hole" type. Another type offer by Friedr. Herder Abr. Sohn is a "Tweezer" type.

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Let me clarify that I should have written as old as the modern cartridge such as the pin fire circa 1836 in France. The knives with the curved blade and small hole were used on the pinfire cartridge which had a small pin on the side on the cartridge near the base. The small hole was for the pin. The curved blade was for other types of cartridges such as rimfire or shot gun shells.

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Here is unusual type of Verlangerungsmesser (extension-knife) that was offered on ebay and sold in Aug. 2020 for $270.00 with some fast bidding at the end of the auction. I believe this unmarked example works like the German WWII paratrooper gravity knife with a retracting motion into the handle rather than folding. This knife looks like one listed as model Nr. 7043 in the Gottlieb Hammesfahr catalog. Research notes: I am not 100% sure of the model number as the print is very small. Note that there are spear blade and clip blade models and I believe the spear blade types on the German made knives may predate the clip blade versions.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 11/25/2022 05:51 PM. Reason: added information
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This probably early 20th century wood handle Verlangerungsmesser was posted by Colin Davis on 6/10/2007 as "Unknown German hunting knife" on German Daggers.com. The bolster is marked "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" (Legally Protected) with an anchor in between. The term "Gesetzlich Geschutzt" is 1899 or later. Note that this model has a spear blade which is probably before 1945. I have noted the 1895 Carl Holz, Tuttlingen catalog shows a spear blade Verlangerungsmesser and the 1910 Herm. Konejung catalog shows a clip blade Verlangerungsmesser. I believe the spear blade may be older than the clip blade on German made knives and I do not recall seeing a spear blade Verlangerungsmesser made after 1945.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 12/07/2022 07:45 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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As newbie of this outstanding forum I am very impressed of this extrable knife thread.
Thank you for sharing your great information, Wetzel 206 09, and for showing your collection's knives.

I like to show a couple of nearly identical extractable German knives, being marked by different German cutlers from Solingen:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The top one with bottom bolsters is a Hugo Koeller, the other an Ed. Wuesthof TRIDENT one.

Hugo Koeller's c.1970s sales catalog is illustrating the knife:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I could not research any details on the nearly identical Ed. Wuesthof knife without bottom bolsters, anyway Ed. Wuesthof's 1922 sales catalog is illustrating onother different classic pattern:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

BTW: I learned that the colloquial German term ‚Saufaenger‘ for this kind of knife obviously is being translated by collectors in English as ‚pig sticker'.

Last edited by chevalier2022; 12/13/2022 10:00 AM.
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Yes we still use 'pig sticker' title for these and other knives..

- An excellent thread.. Nice examples, and love the period adverts... Much thanks for posting!

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The German names used for the French D'Estaing knife are Jagdmesser (Hunting-knife), Verlangerungsmesser (Extension-knife), Verlangerungsdolch (Extension-dagger) and Saufanger (Pig-catcher). The British used the terms "Folding Dirk" or "Folding Bowie Knife" and may have been the 1st to copy the original 1780's French design in the 1830's to 1840's. 1st pictured is made by Bunting of Sheffield about 1840's. Next picture is 3 British folding Dirk knives from about 1830's to 1840's.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 12/16/2022 05:04 PM. Reason: added information
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on this topic,,like the 9th post I spotted something familiar I have in a junk draw..

DSCN5716.JPG (94.87 KB, 162 downloads)
DSCN5719.JPG (70.37 KB, 162 downloads)
DSCN5718.JPG (159.58 KB, 162 downloads)
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Sorry to interrupt your great topic...

It appears to be horn scales,,blades so sharp you could shave with! Bladed marked twice..

DSCN5715.JPG (66.37 KB, 161 downloads)
myKnife2.jpg (26.86 KB, 161 downloads)
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OK, let's put our "junk" back in our "drawers" and get our "train" of thoughts back on the old Verlangerungsmesser special. Here are some old drawings from old catalogs. I would like to thank DAMAST who posted some of these old catalogs on German Daggers.com

Verlangerungsmesser, Anton Wingen Jr 001.jpg (39.65 KB, 135 downloads)
Anton Wingen Jr.
Verlangerungsmesser in B. & S. catalog 001.jpg (49.49 KB, 135 downloads)
Balke & Schaaf, early 20th century
Verlangerungsmesser, Gebr. Grafrath 001.jpg (62.59 KB, 135 downloads)
Gebr. Grafrath
Verlangerungsmesser, Herm. Konejung, 1910 001.jpg (29.99 KB, 135 downloads)
Herm. Konejung, Solingen 1910
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 12/22/2022 02:35 AM. Reason: tried to correct captions.
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A review of scabbard / sheath types used on the German Verlangerungsmesser from the mid to late 19th century shows a dagger type scabbard that fit the blade, with a concave scabbard throat made of metal that matched the contour of the bolster. See "Louis Hanau, Coln"; "Carl Holz, Tuttlingen"; "Renz, St. Gallen".

The probably late 19th century to mid 20th century Verlangerungsmesser form fitted leather sheath that fit the blade and part of the handle, is also found with a metal chape on the bottom. To secure the Verlangerungsmesser a leather strap and buckle or snap button strap was used. My "E. Witte, Trier" has a leather strap and a buckle that has a leather frame, not metal. The Gottlieb Hammesfahr catalog shows the leather strap and metal buckle was used on their Verlangerungsmesser sheath.

The probably early 20th century to mid 20th century Verlangerungsmesser sheaths are usually found with a snap button strap to secure the Verlangerungsmesser to the sheath. Some early 20th century to late 20th century sheaths have no snap button strap to secure the Verlangerungsmesser to the sheath.

P.S. the German name Saustecher is translated to Pig sticker and can be found on the "Puma Hunter" web site along with some Puma Verlangerungsmesser examples.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/12/2023 07:34 AM. Reason: correct detail information
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Invention:

"Modern snap fasteners were patented by German inventor Heribert Bauer in 1885 as the "Federknopf-Verschluss", a novelty fastener for men's trousers".

And so, any Verlangerungsmesser sheath with the snap button strap is probably post (after) 1885.

Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 01/16/2023 09:01 PM. Reason: added another comment.
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really,,,what great images and advertisements shown here. Nice, clear etc.

Now will someone find this knife in their collection somewhere and sell it to me!! smile. just like this,,knife, scabbard, cork screw,[maybe another small blade?]..

,,,,and thanks again for a wonderful topic....,G.

Verlangerungsmesser-tool.jpg (26.12 KB, 12 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 01/21/2023 12:59 AM.
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Hey Gaspare, your welcome and thank you for your replies.

I became a member of German Daggers.com to learn more about our Hobbie and to share the information that I have found over the years.

I also like to collect the late 19th century to early 20th century German Bauernmesser (Farmers-knife) with master blade, pen blade, pruning blade, saw and corkscrew. I have three from: "J. Wetzel Sohn, Tuttlingen" (Tortoise handle scales); "Gebr. Dittmar, Heilbronn" (Stag handle scales): "Walther" (Ivory handle scales).

I can find no information on the Walther knife. The bolsters are the same as the "J. Wetzel Sohn, Tuttlingen" and my friend, Mr. Kaeshammer of Oberkirch, Germany thinks both knives are probably from the South-West area of Germany. The "Walther" knife could also be from Switzerland which is very close to this area.

The pruning blade is also used to collect mushrooms and Mr. Kaeshammer has sent pictures of mushrooms he has collected in the Black Forest of Germany. I am not selling, still buying and like to use eBay. Mr. Kaeshammer and friends have some of the best knives I have ever seen and like to take the train to Switzerland on the weekends, how cool is that?


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