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Hello everyone does knights cross provenance to a heer or Luftwaffe dagger add to value...and if so how much..???? thanks cheers and best, Ryan

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Ryan,

I would say attribution to a known personality would increase value, certainly is the person in question was a RK trager. If part of an estate with provenance, for sure, however If not, the attribution would need to be something a buyer would believe in.


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Thanks Billy, not a known "personality" but provenance directly from family thanks cheers and best, Ryan

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If a Knights Cross Flyer that usually adds to the value. But how much? A good question... The dagger guys here gotta know.
Dealers get crazy and sometimes add 50% or more!. They'll make a guy 'known' even if he isn't by blowing something simple up...

Andy always said its worth it and would do a full search on the guy,,,you never know!

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I would say it doubles the value of a dagger if the piece is in top shape. Maybe even more.

The challenge is tying any particular dagger to a man awarded the KC.

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Thanks Dave and Gaspare I appreciate regards, Ryan

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Personally I would think it would at least triple the value or even more, I have one that I have researched to be sure and would not sell it for any money, real one's are extremely rare.

Gary

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I would say Dave and Gary are right. If there is proof linking the dagger to the owner, personalized, or presentation, 2 or 3 times the value.
Just a story or letter from family, may not be enough. If it is, most of mine are linked to one for sure.
Ed

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I hope to acquire the dagger with whatever comes with it.....................it is coming directly from the family I am told through a picker who is NOT knowledgeable regarding militaria...... only info I have is knights cross recipient, highly decorated...............right now I don't even know branch of service I had a named panzer officer visor years ago to a knights cross winner nicely printed name tag and three initials stamped into leather liner........name tag was very nicely done......printed I did not get the $$$ that such a visor should have garnered major 3rd panzer army as memory serves cheers and best, Ryan

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It's all your call.
No real verification, no real increase in value, IMHO.
Ed

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Hi Ed, thanks for your reply.....I never said that there wasn't verification....LoL...........at the moment I don't know all that much other than what has been posted here. Should the price be reasonable and should there be plausable and decent provenance I will consider the purchase. Thanks, I appreciate your input. cheers and best, Ryan

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Ryan
Hope everything works out and you get it, would like to see it. It would be a grand prize.
Do you know the maker?
Ed

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Hi Ed unfortunately as of this moment I do not even know branch of service..Heer Luft or Kriegsmarine. All I have been told is that the dagger remains with the family, as opposed to the veteran/family. I have been told he is KC winner and highly decorated. This is all that I know. Having said this my picker is reliable and has been a great source of authentic items over the past few years I remain highly optimistic and hopeful smile cheers and best, Ryan

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Ryan
Maybe 10 years back or so a young man,member here, he was from Spain I think. Started to tie together named pieces with the actual owner. What process he used was is unknown. I do know he quit the forum and collecting if I remember correctly. Other than paying someone with access to archives, using The Key, or having a rank list I would think it's hit or miss. I have a few names pieces one I sold a named etched bayonet. Either the man was not important or he just was lucky enough to have his name added to the reverse of the blade. I've never took the time to find the others on named pieces I have. I am working on a dedicated RLB Leader working the to and from.. maybe not even worth while but how much to we learn along the way? If you do get it at some point I hope the family is caring enough to give you the personal info you need. Yes it raises the value to me. Just like a numbered SS with the research packet.

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I own a couple of fully named army daggers, i never paid more then a 100 extra for the name, i have seen names with generals rank but its always the question, what came first? Rank list name, or name on the guard?
If a dagger comes with full provenance straight from the family it adds to its value, but the rest?
I have seen so may names over the years, good, bad and the ugly regarding engravings thats its more a leap of fate.
In lots of cases the dagger had a post war upgrade..

So paying more is just what the buyers is willing to pay, there are no rules there.
I have seen stupid prices paid for daggers where the owner will be sentenced to own it for the rest of his life wink

Ger

Last edited by Gerrit1963; 05/11/2022 01:54 PM.
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Thanks Bret and Ger I appreciate both your replies and insight cheers and best, Ryan

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Well I have acquired the dagger and group it is a mint Heer WKC dagger with mint portepee and hangers. The recipient was Leuttnant Karl -Heinz Krusenbaum, 2. 7 Pionier- Battalion/ 7 Infanterie Division, awarded the Deutsches Kreuz in Gold, June 8th, 1942, Iron Cross 1rst Klasse, silver wound badge, General Assault badge, and the close combat clasp in bronze. He is a highly decorated officer. He and his wife were married in September 1944, Ursula Penther. She was a member of the NSF, She became a Red Cross nurse and served in Russia from 1940 until 1945, principally in Russia. The group came directly from the family. The group includes Ursula's NSF album, Red Cross nurses' album both compete. A nurses' wartime album in Russia. A large album of both she and her husband including all of their wedding photos. Large studio portraits of Ursula and Karl in his summer white tunic following award of the German Cross. Official large studio portrait of Karl Krusenbaum after awarding of the German Cross, wearing white summer tunic. Ursula's wartime red cross identification, wartime marriage certificate, Document for both showing family tree lineage of Aryan descent, postwar family album, post war photos, pre war school documents, arbeit books, and much more ephemera dating to the 1970s. Dagger remains wrapped in a period 1956 newspaper, blade is stone mint with deep burnishing and 100% cross grain....blemish free, dagger fittings are 100% mint with early silvering and burnishing deep yellow handle paper protected dagger for years I had to cut it out of paper to view it. Although not personalized and although NOT a knights cross recipient he was still highly decorated and an officer of a pioneer battalion. I will take pictures tomorrow for someone to post. A fresh from the family grouping. cheers, Ryan

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Ryan
That is one fantastic find. Nothing one could add to that.
Congrats
Ed

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Thanks Ed, I appreciate icing on the "cake" would've been his medals. cheers and best, Ryan

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You got it,,,thats great!!... It is a real nice group it sounds like. The dagger and accoutrements etc. The wifes info, photo albums , documentation,,family lineage etc. I hope that 56 newspaper wrap isn't brittle as I'd even conserve and save that!

I wouldn't be able to help it but I would add as many as those described awards/decorations as possible. although not actually his there is nothing wrong with having them as representations,,and would look great as a total display.. Good catch!

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Yes, as Gas said, it would cost a lot to get all those (original) Awards together for the display, but would make a super display.
Good luck
Ed

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Thanks guys I will snap some pictures of it tomorrow for posting as I will be moving it along quite quickly it no longer fits into my collecting sphere...lol cheers and best, Ryan

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Upon further examination it does look as if he might have the silver close combat clasp is it possible to be awarded the bronze and then the silver clasp later when you qualify??? in some pictures the clasp appears dark and bronze later pictures with great detail it clearly looks silver in one pic he clearly has a black wound badge and later the silver wound badge both he and his wife survived their extensive Russian war service and prospered in later life. Interestingly the wife served extensively in the Ukraine and Kiev as indicated by some of the photos cheers, Ryan

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Man ,, Ryan they must have seen some crazy/sad things on the Russia front.. Most of the actions and some of the most terrible things happened in Ukraine!

Yes, if you had a BWB and got wounded again etc. you would receive the Silver or even Gold.. Same with the CCC. If you already had a bronze and you had more documented action and were eligible you would get the next grade [Silver].... Like that with most awards/decorations....

Last edited by Gaspare; 08/18/2022 10:22 PM.

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