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#353625 02/16/2022 02:02 PM
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Hi

This is my R.K.
There are no particular doubts , bat still I would like to know the opinions
of more experienced people.

Thanks
Vik

DSC_0068 (Large).JPG (67.5 KB, 342 downloads)
DSC_7000 (Large).JPG (86.73 KB, 339 downloads)
DSC_0045 (Large).JPG (64.68 KB, 339 downloads)
DSC_0050 (Large).JPG (66.15 KB, 338 downloads)
DSC_0078 (Large).JPG (60.88 KB, 338 downloads)
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Vik #353626 02/16/2022 02:06 PM
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.....

CSC_0035 (Large).JPG (73.23 KB, 338 downloads)
CSC_0046 (Large).JPG (67.39 KB, 337 downloads)
CSC_7001 (Large).JPG (77.86 KB, 337 downloads)
DSC_6808 (Large).JPG (71.2 KB, 337 downloads)
CSC_0060 (Large).JPG (76.19 KB, 337 downloads)
Vik #353627 02/16/2022 02:11 PM
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disassembled photos

CSC_6650 (Large).JPG (66.18 KB, 336 downloads)
CSC_6649 (Large).JPG (60.86 KB, 336 downloads)
CSC_6652 (Large).JPG (78.4 KB, 336 downloads)
CSC_6658 (Large).JPG (64.81 KB, 336 downloads)
CSC_6662 (Large).JPG (71.42 KB, 336 downloads)
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Vik #353629 02/16/2022 06:53 PM
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What I see looks very good. Nice catch.

Dave

Vik #353642 02/17/2022 02:54 PM
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Who doesn't like a beautiful Robt Klaas

PVON

ssdagger2-041klaas 4.jpg (72.72 KB, 301 downloads)
ssdagger2-065 klaas6.JPG (65.61 KB, 302 downloads)
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pvon #353646 02/17/2022 11:41 PM
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Pvon, that is really nice. Are you going to the SOS?

Mark

Vik #353652 02/18/2022 02:50 PM
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Hello Mark


No I am not!

Age and health have slowed me down!

Vik #353657 02/18/2022 04:03 PM
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Hello, Mark,

We don't see you too often these days. Still collecting ?

Vik #353664 02/18/2022 10:43 PM
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A bit here and there. I still have a lot of SA, SS, LUFT and Army daggers and some Allach. Too many old friends have passed and I missed the interaction with other members. Most of the nicest Luftwaffe chained daggers I have came from Pvon.

Vik #353665 02/18/2022 10:51 PM
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Mark
Glad to see you post. Hope all has been going well. Ron

Vik #353666 02/18/2022 11:11 PM
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Thanks Mark

You always were a nice guy and a plus to the hobby!


You also were a real player, with class!

PVON

Vik #353678 02/19/2022 03:40 PM
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My contribution to the thread, a pick up from last year. Early Klaas stuff is very well done for sure. Not a ground Rohm but condition that I couldn't pass up.

IMG_2422.JPG (45.85 KB, 268 downloads)

GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Vik #353679 02/19/2022 03:41 PM
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Nice motto too.

Great to see you back Mark!

IMG_2427.JPG (40.08 KB, 266 downloads)

GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Billy G. #354385 04/16/2022 04:30 PM
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One of the best blades shown in a while.


Always looking for top condition daggers of any variety!
Vik #354386 04/16/2022 07:17 PM
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Outstanding WOW cheers, R

Vik #354389 04/16/2022 09:50 PM
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I have always thought Klass to be an under rated maker of SS daggers. They are high quality and well assembled. The trademark is great.

Dave

Vik #355303 07/28/2022 02:24 PM
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Nice daggers shown I notice on some Klass daggers the runes button has short stubby SS runes while others have long runes that touch the inner circle. Is there any reason for this or was it a case of a different style of button from maybe a new supplier.

Regards mametz

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Vik #355304 07/28/2022 03:30 PM
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Hello, Mametz, and welcome to GDC.

Many SS daggers, particularly those of the larger makers have more than one style of rune. They were a minor supplier item and there are many styles found. I have never agreed with the idea that any given maker can have just one type.

Here is a contest I did some while ago to ID daggers by their runes. Take a look:

https://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=250609#Post250609

Dave

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Vik #355308 07/28/2022 04:36 PM
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Thanks for the link Dave very interesting, looks like there is no hard and fast rule with these rune buttons

Regards mametz

Vik #355312 07/28/2022 06:29 PM
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Right.

Same thing with the eagles. The real ones vary in minor detail. Some collectors feel that only one variation is OK for a particular maker.

Here is a similar contest for eagles:

https://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=251284#Post251284

Dave

Dave #355317 07/28/2022 09:53 PM
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In my opinion, this grip must have been darkened postwar: it is not what you expect to see on an early untouched M33 SS by Robert Klaas...

Did you buy it from a US dealer?

Best regards,

Herman

1.JPG (102.6 KB, 162 downloads)
3.JPG (87.77 KB, 163 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/28/2022 09:54 PM.

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Vik #355318 07/28/2022 10:29 PM
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Herman,

I've got a few SS daggers and have seen many others. Many do have black grips after all the years. I suspect it varies because of type of wood, amount of handling, and the original dye used .. if any was used.

Dave

Vik #355337 07/29/2022 01:24 PM
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That black finishing is not +80 years old.
And the guards also have been polished recently...

I can guess though which US dealer's hands this one has been...

Herman

CSC_6658-(Large).JPG (65.04 KB, 146 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/29/2022 01:30 PM.

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Vik #355338 07/29/2022 01:29 PM
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Early Robert Klaas SS-grips originally don't look like that.

Herman

4.JPG (85.88 KB, 144 downloads)

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Vik #355342 07/29/2022 06:34 PM
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Yes, Herman, the guards have been cleaned or polished in the 25-35 years or so. The scabbard fittings too, I expect.

And the owner has put shoe polish or wax on the leather of the hanger, or at least he should have done.

As to the grips, I have seen many shades from brown to jet black on SS daggers. Depends on the original color of the wood or the dye used or the wear.

Dave

Vik #355346 07/29/2022 11:01 PM
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Hi guys
Thanks for your interest in the topic. Here is a photo of the hilt on a blue background. It is not as black as on a white background. You can see brown spots. I bought this dagger in Europe several years ago. I have seen painted hilts, but this one does not look like a repainted one.

DSC_6886 (Large) (Medium).JPG (123.4 KB, 126 downloads)
CSC_6642 (Large) (Medium).JPG (51.73 KB, 126 downloads)
Vik #355347 07/29/2022 11:15 PM
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Here are two more daggers. Both early production and one manufacturer - Boker.
Handles vary in color and type of wood.

Reg.

Vik

CSC_0004 (Large) (Medium).JPG (81.88 KB, 125 downloads)
DSC_2634 (Large) (Medium).JPG (117.97 KB, 125 downloads)
Vik #355352 07/30/2022 10:29 AM
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These last pictures of your Klaas SS's grip are indeed more assuring, Vik!

The wood looks as it should!

Very nice dagger!

Herman

PS: I would recommend to avoid opening the dagger and no longer polish the nickel-silver parts

Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 07/30/2022 10:34 AM.

"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Dave #355353 07/30/2022 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave
Yes, Herman, the guards have been cleaned or polished in the 25-35 years or so. The scabbard fittings too, I expect.

And the owner has put shoe polish or wax on the leather of the hanger, or at least he should have done.

As to the grips, I have seen many shades from brown to jet black on SS daggers. Depends on the original color of the wood or the dye used or the wear.

Dave

You were right, Dave!

Herman


"Het leven is een strijdtoneel!"
Vik #355485 08/12/2022 01:14 AM
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New guy here. Before I purchase my first SS dagger I have been buying books, reading forums and generally trying to soak up everything I can. I am still in the embryonic stage of learning about these. I have a question. In one of the pics the hole in the handle appears to be oval. All I have read (so far) says it should be more rectangular in shape. Since no one has pointed this out I assume that oval is an acceptable variation. But, I hate to assume. Is that something to question or are some of them just oval? Thanks for any input...and thanks to all who contribute to this forum. It has been my go to place for researching these daggers. Thanks!

Vik #355486 08/12/2022 01:48 AM
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Welcome, Bob, to GDC,

In a perfect dagger, the bottom hole should look like a rectangular hole superimposed on a circular hole. Much like these 2 SA grip bottoms:

1.jpg (60.5 KB, 85 downloads)
2.jpg (13.75 KB, 85 downloads)
Vik #355487 08/12/2022 01:53 AM
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That's what I thought. But is an oval hole an indicator of a replacement handle or is it OK?
Thanks,
Bob

Vik #355488 08/12/2022 01:58 AM
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(SA and SS grips are dimensionaly exactly the same BTW)

Why a circular hole and a rectangular hole ?

The circular hole is drilled through the entire grip. But, since the blade tang is wider at the bottom, the bottom hole must be enlarged so the tang will fit up in the grip without splitting the wood.

The tang:

Tang.jpg (54.14 KB, 82 downloads)
Vik #355489 08/12/2022 02:02 AM
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To accommodate the wider tang, a tool called a mortising chisel was used to carve out the wood from the bottom of the grip. No picture ... I've got one somewhere but it is hiding from me grin right now.

So you end up with a grip bottom looking like the two shown above.

Vik #355490 08/12/2022 02:11 AM
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But, when the dagger is assembled, the grip must fit correctly with the nickel-silver guard and steel blade. It mostly almost fits the first time but the assembler has to file away here or there to get exact, correct fit. And the wood is the easiest part to file on. So, almost no grips look exactly like they started out. Many show signs of being modified.

Here is one from an SS Hammesfahr of mine that looks much like the one you asked about:

9.JPG (166.99 KB, 80 downloads)
Vik #355491 08/12/2022 02:16 AM
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Unfortunately ... a large hole at the bottom of the grip is also the sign of a bad dagger assembled from loose parts. Here is a bad grip. Notice also how the sides have also been filed away.

Big hole.jpg (38.64 KB, 79 downloads)
Vik #355492 08/12/2022 02:20 AM
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In the end it comes down to judgement and knowledge, but I hope you can see the difference between the bad grip above and the others.

Questions ?

Dave

PS - I hope you bought Tom Wittmann's SS book. You can see some of my collection there too.

Vik #355496 08/12/2022 03:29 PM
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Thanks Dave. I really appreciate the input.
I do a bit of woodworking, so I am familiar with mortising and how it's difficult to get it right first try. If done by machine it should be more repeatable though never perfect, if by hand less so, either way it will require the hand work you described.
This has been very helpful. Like I said, at this point I am a sponge soaking up as much as I can. You have been very helpful.
I do have Tom Wittmann's SS Dagger book; it has been very informative. I also have Third Reich Daggers by Bowman and have a set of LTC Thomas Johnson's books, volumes 1-5 and Detecting The Fakes by Lumsden coming in next week.

Any other recommendations for books?

Thanks again,
Bob

Vik #355497 08/12/2022 09:40 PM
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The mortising chisels used to cut out the tang channel in wooden grips were belt powered machines. I think one of Tom Johnson's books has a photo.

As for books, you have the best except for Bowman. I have it too, but most experienced guys do not rate it high. Great line drawings and photos but the info is not the best.

If you can, go to the SOS show in February in Louisville or the MAX show in September at York in Pennsylvania. Both run by the Ohio Valley Military Society.

Dave

Dave #355498 08/12/2022 10:12 PM
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Thanks for the info. I got the Bowman book before I found Whittmann's. I pretty much go to Tom's book now as it does seem more detailed.
Thanks

Bob


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