Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#354877 06/05/2022 11:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 41
C
OP Offline
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 41
Is Hack- Werke Steyr the fish logo considered a rare maker? I just saw one for the first time. I see on the reference guide they exist but just got me thinking as to how many?

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Yes, it is pretty rare. Very hard to find.

Dave

Dave #354879 06/06/2022 02:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 41
C
OP Offline
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 41
Thank you, before I found it on the Forum I looked thru all of Tom Johnsons books as he always listed uncommon maker marks and i couldn't find it anywhere but that's been longer than i realized since volume 8 Regards, Craig

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084
Likes: 96
Craig,

I've only seen it on a Luftwaffe dagger.

Dave

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
I have two Hack Werk maker marks, both on 2nd Lufts,

Fish in oval
Fish no oval.

I have never seen it on a Heer, but, then, I am not looking for one either.

John

TM.JPG (35.11 KB, 223 downloads)
TM 2.JPG (33.26 KB, 222 downloads)

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126
Likes: 22
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126
Likes: 22
John, two?! The fish is always rare on just about anything. I’ve got it on a fire bayonet, only one I e ever seen.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Billy, I was surprised as well, but there it is, two very different marks.

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,781
Likes: 38
Online Content
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,781
Likes: 38
I have seen one Heer dagger with the fish in 40 years wink


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 41
C
OP Offline
C
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 41
The army dagger i looked at had the fish in the oval, just as the one Vern shows in the army makers guide. The blade is plated and the dagger uncleaned and in excellent cond. Guess i need to check the fittings as against the different type's shown in TW's army book.

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Hello, HACK-WERKE STEYR, owned by Josef and Gustav Hack was a smaller Austrian knife maker. During III R they did produce mainly SA/NSKK daggers, HJ knives and walking out dress bayonets. Only few army/luft daggers.
A further makermark with the lieing fish and "Rostfrei" beneath is known.
It is the same like problem as with ZEITLER edged weapons: They DID produce a lot during the III R, mainly for the now "Ostmark" demand, but after 45 there had been a large amount of surplus parts and these were used (ZEITLER´s by Atwood; HACK´s by the firm itself) to assemble edged weapons long after the war. Imho it is always necessary to look if a certain dagger has a homogenous look, if all parts are well executed(!) and fitting nicely together(!!). If this is not the case it might be a past 45 compilation.
After 45 they did produce mainly hunting knives until they got liquidated in 1981.
Regards, daggers.


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #356869 01/04/2023 01:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 456
Offline
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by wotan
Hello, HACK-WERKE STEYR, owned by Josef and Gustav Hack was a smaller Austrian knife maker. During III R they did produce mainly SA/NSKK daggers, HJ knives and walking out dress bayonets. Only few army/luft daggers.
A further makermark with the lieing fish and "Rostfrei" beneath is known.
It is the same like problem as with ZEITLER edged weapons: They DID produce a lot during the III R, mainly for the now "Ostmark" demand, but after 45 there had been a large amount of surplus parts and these were used (ZEITLER´s by Atwood; HACK´s by the firm itself) to assemble edged weapons long after the war. Imho it is always necessary to look if a certain dagger has a homogenous look, if all parts are well executed(!) and fitting nicely together(!!). If this is not the case it might be a past 45 compilation.
After 45 they did produce mainly hunting knives until they got liquidated in 1981.
Regards, daggers.

Very interesting info! Do you possibly know what type of fittings were predominantly used by Hack and Zeitler on their army daggers? was it mainly Generic fittings or a manufacturer specific?
I'm asking this because strangely enough, both a Zeitler as well as a Hack Werke army were offered here for sale recently, and BOTH had eickhorn fittings?
Thanks in advance.
Dion


Even the Gods are helpless against stupidity!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,805
Likes: 23
Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,805
Likes: 23
That's a rare bird! Never seen one till now. It's a ten on Denny Roach rarity list. Best!

Dion #356873 01/04/2023 05:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Originally Posted by Dion
Very interesting info! Do you possibly know what type of fittings were predominantly used by Hack and Zeitler on their army daggers? was it mainly Generic fittings or a manufacturer specific?
I'm asking this because strangely enough, both a Zeitler as well as a Hack Werke army were offered here for sale recently, and BOTH had eickhorn fittings?
Thanks in advance.
Dion

Hello Dion! The one HACK army I have in my files has been shown by david walsh in GD.C in january 2009 an has generic fittings. Personally I have never seen any convincable non EICKHORN edged weapon with EICKHORN fittings and I would omit them. Sorry, have no ZEITLER in my files but as far as I remember the very few I have seen these had generic fittings. To my best knowledge EICKHORN did not sell their parts to other firms. But on the other hand we cannot absoutely conclude it.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #356875 01/04/2023 07:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 456
Offline
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 456
Hi Wotan,

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I can very well believe your statement regarding Eickhorn. I also cannot believe that Eickhorn would allow that. I've seen Eickhorn utilize Generic A fittings, but not the other way around. In fact, I personally have come across 4 Eickhorns with Generic A crossguards, where I know that they were not fiddled with. The Hack that was on offer here, as well as the Zeitler were through and through Eickhorn. Right down to the scabbard, so I personally think that someone swapped out the blades and tried to sell them off as rare makers.
When you say the Hack that you have on record has Generic fittings, do you mean the generic A, or B crossguard?

Regards,
Dion


Even the Gods are helpless against stupidity!
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Hello Dion, the dagger shown by david walsh had generic B fittings.
As you state correct, EICKHORNs are sometimes seen with (what I think period assembled) generic A crossguards (shunned by the not so well experienced collectors) but not the other way round.
Here are pics from david´s HACK example.
Regards,

HACK david walsh 2009.JPG (51.8 KB, 100 downloads)
HACK david walsh 2009_a.JPG (43.84 KB, 100 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 456
Offline
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 456
Hi Wotan,

thanks a ton for those pics. So its generic B. Makes alot of sense that it would be generic fittings. My belief is that Eickhorn did at some stage use generic A for a very short time span. I've come across too many examples for them to have been swapped out for generic cross guards. The patina was the same on all fittings and the daggers had not looked like they had been apart. The source of those daggers was from the vets themselves, or at least their family. Its just my gut feeling that at some stage in the manufacturing period they ran out of cross guards and had to purchase a few generic types. But I guess we'll never know for sure!

regards,
Dion


Even the Gods are helpless against stupidity!
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,002
Likes: 29
Dion, for me there is also no question that EICKHORN did use a certain, small amount of at least generic A fittings during the period. We do not know why but I think it is quite clear, as you said, that they ran out of their own crossguards and needed any for an order.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,627 SS Bayonets
1,760,346 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,798 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Spitzer Stuka Etch Opinions
by RookieSA - 03/29/2024 09:58 AM
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Latest New Posts
Spitzer Stuka Etch Opinions
by RookieSA - 03/29/2024 09:58 AM
Luftwaffe Swords
by Luftbud - 03/29/2024 09:21 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Luftbud - 03/29/2024 09:13 AM
Personalized reproduction honor ring source?
by Evgeniy - 03/29/2024 09:02 AM
F Dula with a twist
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 03/28/2024 09:29 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,653
Posts328,715
Members7,502
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
12 members (RookieSA, Simone, Documentalist, Baz69, Vern, Stephen, Luftbud, The_Collector, Browning1900, Evgeniy, Gerrit1963, Rainer S), 578 guests, and 139 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5