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Found this on the internet.....

Wusthof-1.jpg (11.84 KB, 165 downloads)

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The little sugar cube grabber has that tag from 1967.
FYI I've also been in contact with Johnson Reference Books and nobody is continuing and logging of images or information per tags. So in my view this here is the best way to stop the flow of spurious information., before someone legitimizes tags that are definitely postwar!!

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Thought you would like that wink


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I've got a new purchase in the wings (I hope) or I would be tempted to pull the trigger here. So guys this is part of the issue, Crux of the problem if you will. I'm not against adding a legit tag to a dagger that is worthy but.....this area is grey!! I guess if anyone sees a Schmidt dagger with a tag pop up soon then ya know!! The tag looks great btw!!

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Vern best shot of the tag sorry.

Screenshot_20220527-032107~3.png (89.49 KB, 131 downloads)
Last edited by BretVanSant; 05/27/2022 08:48 AM.
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Nice. I can work with that wink


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So, do we now need to do all the research to determine if a firm that made Daggers, swords, knives, shears, clippers, razors, and other cutting items, had a different tag for each?? Or did they use one tag for everything??
Or one tag for Military items, one tag for civilian items, one tag for farm items?? That will be almost impossible, I would think.
Bret, thanks for a very informative thread that is very interesting. Vern, thank you for your hard work, I like the gallery.
Ed

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Ed,

I suspect that the firms that made daggers, swords, knives, shears, clippers, razors, and other cutting items all had their own ideas and that no two were alike, and that some had more than one tag for a specific type.

As you say, hard work.

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Ed,
I know I sound like a broken record here. The way I see it is this. Back in the 50s and 60s you could buy daggers swords etc from places like Museum of Historical Arm or Robert Ables and host of others. Now we can reference Johnson ,Wittmann, Carter, the list continues etched bayonet book is a great reference! But as a kid I had no clue Johnson was printing books. Only when I was older did I see that. So imagine you buy an army dagger from Robert Ables or the like it has luft hangers or Social welfare hangers. How would you know? The background had not been done. RAD leader with teno hangers. But as the hobby grew knowledge also grew. Some things we may never know. But people continue research. Maybe we will never know the answer to your question. But we can log photos of items stories of where certain lots of tags came from etc ...Man I wish I had the answer or answers. I don't. But I've been in contact with a person at JRB and nobody is continuing Tom work of just saving image files.. I'm not crazy smart nor do I have deep pockets to buy everything. But this is needed before it gets out of hand and we see tags from the 60s on period daggers etc.. and they are taken as 100% fact.
That's going on right now!!! See TWs show video. Fact is I was in ICU recovery and my kid asks me are ever going to set up at the gun shows again. I had no answer as to why not. So I picked up where I left off and am desperate to fix this before it gets out of hand.
Sadly the number of contributing members here is low. I know the spin from people with more answers than me. It's I don't need the hassle of a forum or the backlash. I can't beg anyone for facts but I sure as hell try to stop anyone from putting a suspect non period tag or a period item. I'm not sure it is fixable but we don't put luft hangers on army daggers do we? It has to start somewhere and this is the where the rubber meets the road. Maybe we can make a dent until someone comes along with a better idea.

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These were my reference books for quite awhile.

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Bret,

I'll see your Rudolf Schmidt and raise you a Tiger wink

Tiger.jpg (21.86 KB, 129 downloads)

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Wow that's cool! So you guys know this is what I mean right here!! Without some pictorial facts we will be swimming in it!!

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Bret and Vern
Nice straight razors, and with interesting factory tag's yet.
I collected straight razors for years, not sure how many I have, but none with tags. Funny, I have not shaved since June 1st 1971, my last day in the US Army. I must have 50 or so.
Thanks again for both of yours's work on the tags, and for good reading.
Ed

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Ed I put a topic down in other collections for you. I also collect razors but it's not a razor topicπŸ˜ŽπŸ˜ŽπŸ˜ŽπŸ‘πŸ€™βœŒοΈ

Last edited by BretVanSant; 05/27/2022 02:31 PM.
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Sorry I commented on the razors.

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No problem, Ed. I found a pair of scissors with a Muller & Schmidt (Pfeilringwerks) tag and put it in the gallery. Also saw a pocket knife by Rich. Drees & Sohn with the red Solinger tag. Sharing this information should help our fellow collectors when the tags show up on daggers wink


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Added a Boker and a Henckel tag to the gallery, both on razors.


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Razor specific shows or get togethers are something very cool to attend. You think people here are maker mark crazy. Time was at our local gun shows a guy from South Dakota was a knife dealer would always have great razors. I had purchased an old F.Dick meat cleaver(I don't know if there is a correct term?) And had saved it for him all year. He said it was the best cleaver he had ever seen. Unremarkable to me but he lit up like a Christmas tree. It was in mint condition btw. Did some old fashioned horse trading on that unit. We were both happy. Always crazed collectors in nooks and crannies.

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Vern if you find a mausoleum design tag then you just broke the internet!! Nice stuff btw

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Still looking wink


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Craig Gottlieb on History Hunter site currently has three or four "mint" SA daggers with obscure makers and tags...........cheers, Ryan

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Ryan, hopefully....the triangle wusthof tag with the questionable rzm stamp has not found it's way onto a transitional SA!!

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Hi Bret.............................NO COMMENT....................LOL cheers and best, R

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This concerns the archive pictures.The holler tag pictured is not original

The 2nd Horster emblem pictured is a well known postwar tag. 1970s or newer.
There is a period Kuno Ritter tag known and was pictured on hunting knives. I gave one to a well deserving collector. The one pictured seems off. Or maybe it is the one I had ,will have to look at photos.
Also the paper Klass tag is a problem .

I understand it is sort of like the blind leading the blind. But many of the tags in the archive are totally postwar.
.
You do understand many if not all Party daggers never had manufacturers tags on them..

I have owned and own many period before 1946 and post 1946 Solingen cutlery tags and it is almost impossible to date them WITHOUT PERIOD DOCUMENTS or on the ground research .
While I applaud what you are trying to do here the posters here just do not have the depth of knowledge needed to do this project correctly.
Now by saying this I'm sure people are offended but??

Last edited by DAMAST; 06/01/2022 03:22 AM.
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The gallery was put up as a work in progress. The first section includes period tags seen on daggers. Since the tags could have been added to the dagger at any time, they are open for discussion. The third section includes period tags used on cutlery, knives, razors, and scissors, and post war tags. They are not known to have been used on daggers during the period. And I fully understand that political daggers did not have manufacturer's tags wink I'll gladly make any corrections and/or additions you care to share. We can make this a useful resource for collectors.


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I see, the 1st section has many non period tags and or tags never on edged weapons.
Vern just because you or a member here found a picture of a dagger or sword on the internet with a tag on it by no means does that make the 1. Tag period or 2. Tag used on edged weapons.. the minute this kind of information is posted on the internet for some reason collectors think it is accurate or gospel..
Vern and Brent real period information on this subject is hard to come by and some collectors and dealers have a stake in making some of the pictured tags pre 1946.
I get it a work in progress.
Please take my information in my last post into consideration..

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Damast, Oh man I'm always greatful beyond words!! That's all I've wanted since this became a big thing for me the last month. I in no way consider myself educated on this. I just find little info and would love nothing more than anyone with catalogs or any period info to share it. Maybe in following years we will have a better understanding on this. Trust me I don't mind looking stupid if the cause is good and in my view it is. Thanks for any help you provide.

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The Holler tag in the gallery was on a mint bagged and tagged 2nd Navy in last years Ratisbon auction. The Klaas tag was on a mint bagged and tagged 2nd Luft in Tom Johnson's collection. The Kuno Ritter tag is in the cutlery, razor, scissors, export, and post war section. I also think the Hammesfahr, Justinuswerk, Merten, Peres, and Schmidt should be moved to the cutlery/razor section. Any other suggestions would be appreciated wink


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Vern , agree on the D. Peres tag. Not in my favor to do so. But would make sense that it would be on razors and Peres made everything from razors to pocket knifes to cigar cuttersalso and the timeline is murky at best.

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Damast, if your willing to add anything else I'm not pissed in the least. That's why I came back to the forum. To learn more.

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And the others I listed also produced razors and/or cutlery but only made political daggers.


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Originally Posted by Vern
The Holler tag in the gallery was on a mint bagged and tagged 2nd Navy in last years Ratisbon auction. The Klaas tag was on a mint bagged and tagged 2nd Luft in Tom Johnson's collection. The Kuno Ritter tag is in the cutlery, razor, scissors, export, and post war section. I also think the Hammesfahr, Justinuswerk, Merten, Peres, and Schmidt should be moved to the cutlery/razor section. Any other suggestions would be appreciated wink


Hello: Vern
Yes I saw the Ratisbon auction . That does not make the tag real or period.. There are period photos of Holler tags and this was made from one of these photos.
The Klass tag. Well what do you say, If Tom believed the tag was period he was mistaken.. But as many dealers say to me (IT IS GOOD ENOUGH)
They did make period Kuno Ritter tags.

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So the Kuno Ritter tag goes up to the first section and the Klaas and Holler tags come out completely wink


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Do you have photos of period Holler and Klass tags?


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Thought I would share this gem. Came in the mail today. Yeah it's a nothing but. From a friend at JRB.

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I only have but a single tag.

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great tags guys
here is one i just found

tiger tag.jpg (25.01 KB, 30 downloads)
tiger tag 2.jpg (23.48 KB, 30 downloads)
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anything and everything will be done to "enhance" the value of an item or items in this hobby. That news is nothing new. Love the EPS tag and dagger JR I can't remember how many Johnson tags I've found on post war Johnson dagger padded cases..LOL cheers and best, Ryan

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What we don't know we "invent or create"

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currently I have only two mint tagged daggers both later produced WKC plain blade naval dirks one with maker and one without I'm hoping that both tags are of the period

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