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#354597 05/10/2022 04:47 AM
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Ok I've ran through all the references I have. Maybe I've missed something date wise. The 1st model rlb Leader came out in 1936. Anyone have a closer date?? Like down to the. Month or so?
Next the 2nd model with the added ramp came out in 1938 again it's basic stuff here. Anyone have a date that gets is closer like early 1938 mid 1938??? Until I get the time to get great pics and resize etc. I'm going with standard questions here. But would appreciate getting the dates closer than say just 1938. I don't see any signs that it's a converted 1at model. Again till I get good photos these are random questions. Looking for copies of orders to try and get these 1936 and 1938 dates more locked down to maybe a month etc. For now
Bret Van Sant

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Bret,

Most 2nd model Leaders daggers are converted 1st model daggers. The very early ones show waffenamt marks on the crossguard ends, possibly the scabbard throat too. These will have nickel crossguards, most 2nd model leaders I’ve seen have had nickel hardware.

Occasionally you’ll find a Leader dagger with a bright, obvioysly aluminum guard and pommel. These are unquestionably true 2nd model daggers not converted from earlier pieces. The few I’ve encountered were either Ernst Witte marked or unmarked.

Sorry that I can’t help on specifics for the rolling out of the daggers.


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Billy, yes no stamps to the quill ends I've had time to shoot some pics. Will need to resize etc. Blade is dedicated 1 30 37 just wondering if someone knows the date of the orders to change the single loop to have the center ramp. maybe a question that's not answerable? I just can't collect on condition anymore. It not a piece I would have sprung for but ..... The dates dedication splits the time of the 2 models. Chances are nothing big just like the new mystery.

Last edited by BretVanSant; 05/11/2022 01:31 AM.
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Both quill ends

IMG_20220510_194726153~2.jpg (15.25 KB, 58 downloads)
IMG_20220510_194734134~2.jpg (21.15 KB, 58 downloads)
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Here is the dedication date. Over the years a quick cheat to enhance dedications or things done lightly shine a flash light at the blade. The etch or engraving reflects light at a different rate than the surrounding area with nothing. It's a cheat guy but may help some of you. So where it looks like white paint added to make the date stock out it's just light. No harm done to the blade. No excess white paint to remove. Just another work around.

IMG_20220510_194848341_HDR~2.jpg (28.59 KB, 39 downloads)
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Bret, the color of the crossguard is unusual but I believe it due to the closeness and diminishment of resolution from the original. If forced to guess, I’d say that was a 1st model nickel Leader dagger produced after the waffenamts were used and subsequently converted to a 2nd model.


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Billy, best guess I could come up with also. That it must have fallen in-between the cracks for the cross guard stamping. My photos do indeed suck. The dagger is no safe queen and that's oddly is ok with me. So it has a ton grit and grime and finish darkening.

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Hope these are better resized images. Its what I got.

IMG_20220510_194734134.jpg (52.11 KB, 14 downloads)
IMG_20220510_194726153.jpg (49.39 KB, 14 downloads)

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