UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum Post WWII or Imperial?

Greetings, all. I would appreciate the benefit of your experience regarding this hirschfanger. Having perused Houston's guide, there are several areas which make me think that this is a later-manufactured piece. It is marked "Alex Coppel Solingen" which is different from the "ALCOSO" markings that I have seen on known legitimate hirschfangers, among other things.

I acquired this several years ago, more for display than as a collector piece. However, several months ago there was a militaria collectors' show in a nearby city and I brought this hirschfanger along to see if I could find a frog for it. Handing it to a gentleman who had a large collection of (mostly WWII) bayonets and daggers, he told me that it would take a "Red Cross frog" but that he did not have any for sale that day. He complemented me on the piece, and I asked him in what era he thought it had been manufactured. He took a quick look at it and pronounced it to be "Imperial period." This rather surprised me.

More recently, I encountered another gentleman who also sold German militaria, and he happened to have a Red Cross frog on hand. It did not fit, but a WWII-era Parade Frog did (mostly) fit, at least up to the brass stop on the scabbard. He did not know what era it was from, but opined that it was "quite old." I'm not so sure, as the designs on the handle and the toe of the scabbard seem a bit too contrived. Still, it appears to be fairly well made.

So what do we have here -- assembled from parts during the Allied Occupation or something earlier?

I should note that I am not a collector of swords (although I do own a few). My original intent was to obtain something similar to the Hirschfanger which was used during the "Knighting" ritual for new Jaegers. Thus I did not specifically seek out an Imperial or WWII era piece.

I've not seen another one like this until earlier today, when I found another piece of very similar design listed in an auction. Although the one being auctioned lacks the small "skinning blade" you can see the similarities in the design of the grip and hilt. There is also an inscription on the blade which indicates that it was presented to a member of a shooting club. The auction house describes it as "Post-WII" although it has been my experience that auctioneers' expertise tends to be both wide and shallow. That is why I ask the question.

https://live.affiliatedauctions.com/lots/view/1-5OA1BM/post-wwii-german-huntsman-dagger-stag-grip

Your Hirschfänger is a fairly modern example, probably made within the last 20 years or so, these are made to look older to fool the novice collectors out there. The example in the link is of the same vintage.

Gary

Thank you for that information, it largely confirms what I suspected. As you mention, it does appear to have been artificially aged. Perhaps if I again encounter the dealer who stated it was of the Imperial Era, I should sell it to him?

I remain curious about a few things. Would the blade have been modified from a wartime military blade? Or is this whole thing new-made from scratch? What narrows it down to 20 years vs. 40-50-60 years ago? Is that (20 years) when they first started being encountered on the market?

The workmanship can hardly be described as first-cabin, but it does seem better made than what one might expect from China or Pakistan. I do not know what these cost (this one came from the surviving son of a fellow hunter) but the amount of time and effort put forth to make this seems not to leave much room for profit.

I have to wonder whether some of these were made to fulfill a post-war need, during the 1950s and 1960s as civilian hunters were once again allowed to possess firearms and the various Jagdverein began to reestablish themselves. Certainly the originals - not plentiful to begin with - became increasingly scarce following two world wars, confiscation and looting by occupation forces, and purchase by various souvenir seekers.

I narrow it down to the last 20 years because I remember these hitting the market around 20 years ago, everything on this dagger was made during the last 20 years, nothing is of old stock.

Gary

Thank you for that information.