Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
Hello, fellow collectors and much respected experts!


My first post on this forum - I hope that i dont look all too foolish right away ...

As I have been collecting HJ knives and european bayonets for the last 20 odd years, sometimes one or two completely different antiques come and go through my collection (im guessing you know how it goes - from "nice display piece" to too many different items and a wife thats not too fond of the porcelain having to make room for another helmet), though almost always from sources that I trust completely. Thats means Im not a complete stranger to handling 3rd reich memorabilia, but when it comes to Heer and Luftwaffe daggers, I must admit that I am a rookie. I honestly think that LW dagger in the pictures below might be the first one I hold in my hand, and as for Heer daggers this is probably perhaps my fifth one or so. So please dont laugh too hard at me ...

These two daggers are a recent purchase of mine. I took a chance and I was more ore less guessing regarding their authenticity. Once they ended up in my hands though, I honestly have my doubts.
I would say that especially the eagles scare me a little: the work on the Heer just seems to be of lesser quality then I would expect and the one on the LW looks like it might have had a few more drinks than I would have thought. Plus I cannot seem to find any identical ones in any reference.

So the question is simply: Did I get burned this time? Any thought or input would be greatly appreciated and I will be happy to post more pictures if requested.

Thank you all in advance and best regards!

/Johan

thumbnail_IMG_5416.jpg (119.38 KB, 128 downloads)
thumbnail_IMG_5418.jpg (101.82 KB, 127 downloads)
thumbnail_IMG_5419.jpg (66.59 KB, 127 downloads)
thumbnail_IMG_5420.jpg (92.52 KB, 127 downloads)
thumbnail_IMG_5421.jpg (95.43 KB, 127 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
.

thumbnail_IMG_5423.jpg (92.86 KB, 124 downloads)
thumbnail_IMG_5424.jpg (122.08 KB, 124 downloads)
thumbnail_IMG_5425.jpg (101.13 KB, 124 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,807
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,807
Likes: 4
Hello Bayonnaise, first let me welcome you to this forum where you did your first postings. Generally I would recommend to show pics and ask questions before a aquisition is done. Otherwise it might come to a bad awakening and loss of money. I also would NEVER recommend to disamble edged weapons. In many cases the somehow frozen fit of 70+ years cannot be reconstructed by reassambling.

To your daggers: The army for me is an unmarked (no makersmark) one. I am not sure but I think to remember that this certain eagle crossguard can be traced down to the HOERSTER firm. Also the silver finish and the pommel reminds me of the HOERSTER company. There are two and even more different washers which is in my opinion uncommon. Perhaps someone has already disambled the dagger ahead of you and had to improve the fit of the parts. As these HOERSTERs did come with unmarked blades (beside marked versions) it is also possible that someone has switched blades. The middle segment of the blade is remarkable wide which would let me think of a postwar replacement.

The luft dagger has no scabbard. This is always a big minus for daggers. It is very hard if not impossible to trace down unmarked luft daggers to their manufacturer Also the leather washer which is very thick seems to be a replacement. I am not sure about the crossguard. Is it of leightweight material or brass???

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
Thank you very much for your much appreciated answer (and for the welcoming)!


I normally dont venture out too far from my HJ homelands but these two daggers just jumped at me at a surprisingly low cost well under normal market price, so as I said, I took a gambling. It was more or less the price alone that made me buy them, if I dont keep them just to display some other item, I will probably just pass them on again.

I certainly do agree with you though - questions should be asked before and not after the deal is done of course. As for the taking apart bit, I agree here as well. These daggers have apparently been disassembled before I did it and did come apart easily. But still I see destroyed daggers every now and then (SA nuts seem to have a special tendency to tempt people) and I sincerely appreciate your tip and concern. Perhaps not my smartest move.

Regarding the Heer: Yes, it is completely unmarked, including the tang. I can see what you mean by the blade being wide but I suspect that is has more to do with my photographing skills. Some kind of angle makes it look strange. I had to go check the dagger irl after you pointed it out for me, and concluded it has the same shape as a couple of other army daggers in my possession, from known makers. That being said - I do not for a second doubt your thoughts on it being a parts dagger or the blade perhaps being post war.
I am very greatful for your answer and to be honest i didnt even reflect on the fact that there are two washers. Your theory about the dagger being refitted sounds very reasonable to me. That is still slightly better than what i feared, though, since I thought maybe it was a complete fake.
I have never seen an eagle with such low detail before and couldnt find another one in any reference (if anyone knows a picture of another like that online or in a reference book - I would much appreciate a hint about where to look. I have all of Johnsons books and most of the other more known ones). As I said, I am a rookie when it comes to these things. Also - thank you very much for your thoughts on possible maker! Thats lightyears from my knowledge and very interesting!

The LW: Yes, it is a shame about the scabbard. I did pay accordingly. It has some condition issues overall. I had the same problem on this one as with the army: couldnt find another crossguard eagle that looked like it, until just recently when I found a crossguard for sale in Johnsons internet shop. Unfortunately they dont say with maker it is, but at least I found one that (to me) looks the same as mine.
About the material: I not sure, to be honest. It is the same material as the pommel. I would not say its brass, nor lightweight. Its not magnetic. My guess would be some alloy, not all that different from steel except the magnetism. (maybe brass after all? Im too inexperienced to tell, Im afraid). Again - maybe slightly better than i thought at least. I suspected a fake here as well.

Wow, this ended up longer than i meant. Im sorry, hope you bear with me.



You did lift my spirit a little, trigger my interest in re-reading some reference sources and look at more makers, and make me most greatful. Many and sincere thanks!

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,318
Likes: 16
Online Content
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 14,318
Likes: 16
Hello, Bayonnaise,

Show us some HJ if you have time.

And, welcome again

Dave

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 2
S
Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,660
Likes: 2
Hello welcome to the forum both daggers are period and as Wotan has alrady mentioned the Heer blade if you paid appropriately they are good acquisitions Luft scabbards are available at shows etc.....cheers and best, Ryan

Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
(Please excuse my late reply)

Dave and Ryan:
Thank you very much!
Im honestly glad I didnt get completely fooled, thanks for calming me =)
And I certainly will put some HJ stuff up for display as soon as I got some pictures that is worth showing. My collection is not that overwhelming or fancy but of course i will try to add something to the forum.

Thanks again for the welcoming!

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,879
Likes: 8
Offline
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,879
Likes: 8
Assuming you didn't overpay, I'd say you did OK. This hobby is a learning process and will continue to be for us all, the trick is to try not to get burned. We all do but with study and experience, you minimize the possibility.


GDC Gold Badge #290
GDC Silver Badge #310
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
OP Offline
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 5
Thanks Billy. Yep, it sure is a life long process and as stated before, I kind of just took a gambling this time, almost with the intention on just passing the daggers on to the next person and actually mostly because of the price. Turned out a little better than I actually thought when I first got them. Im right now in the middle of some kind of rearrangement process where I move all of my collection to another room in the house and go through it all to see what to keep and what to sell (a well needed procedure), and I will see if one of them gets to stay just as a display item or if they will get new homes. At least now I know that in that case I can sell them as real.
Thanks again for your answer!

/Bayo


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,203,822 SS Bayonets
1,701,203 Teno Insignia Set
1,069,376 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Norge Luftwaffe Ring
by SpitfireVb - 08/01/2021 02:28 PM
Chained SS dagger
by Kiwi - 08/01/2021 09:51 AM
Swords that folks like!
by pvon - 07/31/2021 08:47 PM
Luft visors and things!
by pvon - 07/30/2021 09:31 PM
new here
by Kara Robert - 07/29/2021 04:21 PM
Latest New Posts
D.D.A.C. - German Automobile club.
by derjager - 08/01/2021 09:03 PM
Does the color make a difference?
by pvon - 08/01/2021 08:26 PM
Swords that folks like!
by pvon - 08/01/2021 08:24 PM
Helmets
by pvon - 08/01/2021 07:48 PM
Something about SA daggers that grabs you!
by Ilya - 08/01/2021 07:42 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics30,799
Posts319,034
Members6,973
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (Tanker, Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), Dave, Baz69, pvon, seany, derjager, SpitfireVb), 48 guests, and 53 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5