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An earlier post showing the over the shoulder late war Eickhorn marks on Pioniere style and fire bayos prompted me to show you my two Pioniere style bayos.

The two are earlier double oval serrated tail and a later 35-41 marked:

MVC-001S.JPG (38.34 KB, 300 downloads)

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Obverse of the two

MVC-002S.JPG (41.54 KB, 298 downloads)

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The 35-41 TM and crossguard

MVC-003S.JPG (40.11 KB, 295 downloads)

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The reverse pommel for the 35-41

MVC-004S.JPG (39.86 KB, 294 downloads)

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The obverse pommel for the 35-41

MVC-005S.JPG (39.04 KB, 294 downloads)

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The obverse crossguard for the 35-41

MVC-006S.JPG (39.75 KB, 289 downloads)

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The crossguard and double oval TM

MVC-007S.JPG (39.77 KB, 291 downloads)

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The reverse pommel double oval... note the gap in the lug.

MVC-008S.JPG (40.12 KB, 285 downloads)

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The obverse pommel double oval

MVC-009S.JPG (40.15 KB, 283 downloads)

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The obverse crossguard.

Note that the 35-41 has the blunted quillon.

Now, if I could only find the short Pionieres and the over the shoulder marks, my life would be complete (only kidding, this hobby never ends).

John


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How about the picture, you say?

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I love those pioneers almost as much as the FW sidearms. Sadly I've only got one, snagged for $50 a couple of years ago ACS marked. Not a single other bidder. Must have been world sleep day Big Grin.


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Not Pioniere, but here are some more Eickhorn marked KS98s.

The long and short Heer dress bayo with the double oval serrated tail TM:

MVC-011S.JPG (41.79 KB, 264 downloads)

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Double oval serrated tail Heer KS98s reverse

MVC-012S.JPG (40.07 KB, 262 downloads)

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The short KS98 TM

MVC-013S.JPG (39.7 KB, 261 downloads)

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The long KS98 serrated tail TM

MVC-017S.JPG (41.91 KB, 258 downloads)

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Note that the above two serrated tail marks differ in the tail, the arms and the CE on one and no letters on the other.


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The late over the shoulder long KS98 with imitation stag grips.

More to follow.

John

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John,

Great pieces all, I particularly love the Pionier style hilted ones. Seems I've been so devoted to Feuerwehr pieces that I've completely neglected the Pionier style.


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My three 35-41 marked Heer KS98s. Short, long (with vet bring back paper still attached), and long stag grip.

The three:

MVC-879S.JPG (41.73 KB, 248 downloads)

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The three reversed:

MVC-880S.JPG (39.46 KB, 247 downloads)

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The short bayo TM

MVC-881S.JPG (40.74 KB, 246 downloads)

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The long bayo with the bring back paper showing a bit.

MVC-885S.JPG (39.39 KB, 243 downloads)

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And the long with stag grips (an awesome bayo I picked up at the last SOS).

FW up next.

John

MVC-889S.JPG (40.08 KB, 241 downloads)

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Beautiful pieces you have there. There's just something about the Pioneers Smile Other than that, the staghorn pieces are amazing, love them Smile

JAN Big Grin


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Hi,

I am surprised nobody else has had comments on these. Yes, they may be quite "ordinary" but an amazing piece of art I have to say. The Eick "over the shoulder" logo is one of the nicest TMs in my opinion.

JAN Big Grin


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OK, here goes....
I've posted these before so I ask for your patience. I'm kinda proud of these. I've always liked these things and find it hard to understand why they weren't that popular with the German soldiers.
Here are all four versions. (from left to right)
Short blade w/full beak - Carl Julius Krebs
Long blade w/full beak - C. Gustav Spitzer
Short blade w/clipped beak - unmarked
Long blade w/clipped beak - E&F Hörster

100_4931_(Medium).JPG (89.1 KB, 180 downloads)

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Close-up

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An early Paul Weyersberg

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37-41 Eickhorn

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trademark

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Denny,

I love that quartet!


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Denny:

Me too... amazing.

John


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O.K. it's the weekend. I've been wanting to get back on this the other day since I saw it. John started out playing hardball with a full bird Eick, got to love the rarity in that alone. I'm still missing a long bird here. And then Denny had to post all four of the desired sizes. This is going to be a hard act to follow. I'll have to see what pics I can come up with tomorrow.

Denny, the Weyersberg is a screamer. That TM alone on a standard dress bayonet is tough to find.

Great pieces guys, Steve.


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Great Pioneers, most people do not realise just how hard it is to obtain all 4 variations, and my quest continues for the small un-clipped model.
I would also like to ask if anybody owns or has seen a full stag hilt on a standard KS98 by Eickhorn, with the 1942 over the shoulder TM.

I also have one with imitation grip plates but wondered if we could pin a rough date to when they ran out of stags Smile.

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Degens,

Excellent question. I never thought one would exist until you said it. Sounds logical to me. Now that would be a prize to be found. If anybody has one to post it would be Ralph. I've only seen only five or six over the shoulder imitation stags.

Steve.


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Degens,

An over the shoulder KS98 with real stag grip plates, now that's something I haven't seen. One thing I do have an over the shoulder Eick Polizei hilted bayonet with NCO length blade & real stag grip plates. Will post pics next week if you like.


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John,great pieces you have there,thanks for posting.I am a beginning collector,so have much to learn.I would like to ask if the cavalry style frogs with strap,are legit for a KS98?I mean,could they be worn like that standard,or is it a replacement for a black KS98 frog?

Denny,that is one awesome quartet!!I will be glad if I ever own one or two of these.
I would also like to ask you a question;were these Pioneer bayonets always privat purchased?The different shape of pommels;is that a characteristic for the maker,or could soldiers choose between diffirent pommels?

kind regards,Jeremy


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Billy,
Its always a pleasure getting a glimpse of your collection and the over the shoulder Polizei sounds like a scarce beast so would love to see it.

Jeremy,
I was always led to believe the Pioneer Extrawaffen were only available as a private purchase item to both NCO's and enlisted men although they proved to be unpopular. ( personally I prefer them ). The pommels are maker specific and companies such as Horster and Eickhorn are quite distinct when it comes to this model.
There are 4 variations, with clipped and unclipped pommels available in 35cm and 40cm sizes dependant on the maker.
The standard frog was black without retaining strap and anything with, can be viewed as a replacement as far as I am aware.

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Billy:

I, too, am looking forward to seeing your late marked police bayonet... it has to be a very rare beast!

Jeremy: What Degens said..

Degens:

While what you say about producer specific pommel is correct, I do have two different pommels, the clipped and the unclipped, made by Eickhorn. However, the two are different eras of manufacture, the unclipped is the early double oval mark and the clipped is the 35-41 mark.

John


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Billy,
Let's see that late Police bayo! That's gotta be a tough piece to find.

BTW, I forgot to post the back of one of my Pioneer frogs.

100_1212_(Medium).JPG (81.2 KB, 141 downloads)

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Thought I would post one of my favorite Pioneers. It's a Christians and a difficult TM to find on any dress bayo.

Steve.

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Pic 2

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Jeremy, on your frog question, I would say 98% of the time no strap on the frogs for dress bayos. The only exception, IMO, from handling and seeing the RFV style as well as the solid pommel Eicks, it appears that they were issued with that type of frog. These bayos were a bit heavier and a bit longer, and the strap I would assume would be used more for the weight of it than anything. You will notice wear marks where the strap has been, very slight but you can see them. Not so much private purchase, but when the steel is highly polished it looks just like the others. Eick also had style that had the push button release. They're usually unit marked or inventory marked in some way.

Steve.

frog_1.JPG (93.68 KB, 137 downloads)
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Hey guys,

some beauties there. Here's my Pack Pioniere I got from our fellow member here on GDC.





This is what it looks like after some careful cleaning:





Jan Big Grin


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Not Pioniere style, but a short KS98 with imitation stag grips and the late over the shoulder Eick TM.

Obverse

MVC-893S.JPG (38.67 KB, 99 downloads)

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Reverse

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Eickhorn TM

John

MVC-895S.JPG (39.46 KB, 98 downloads)

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Great bayonets shown here!!Thanks to all for the answers,it helps a lot.I still have a lot to learn... Razz

Kind regards,Jeremy


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Sorry for the late posting, here's my late production Polizei bayonet with real stag grips. Short blade has a nice wide fuller with a super sharp point. Only detraction is some bonehead pried off the grip eagle although the prongs are still visible. Scabbard shell is black leather which is in remarkably good condition. Just a nice piece overall so I had to pick it up, particularly since I didn't have any blades with this mark.

Eick1.JPG (99.12 KB, 73 downloads)

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Reverse shot of the mark, sorry for the poor quality Smile

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Billy:

It is great by itself.... and very rare. Thank you for showing.

There should be a special place in hell for boneheads who do this kind of thing to these special artifacts.

I am waiting for an over the shoulder marked Heer KS98 with real stag grips to go with my artificial stag gripped one. Once it has arrived, I will post here for us to see.

John


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First attempt to show some of my blades. Patience and forgiveness ,please! Joe

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How do I reduce pics to 111Kb?
Thanks,anyone

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Great stuff here, gentlemen!

Here are a couple of mine:

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4

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Mine are E. Pack's.

Best greetings,

Herman

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Billy,

Wow that's some piece you have there, and in excellent condition. Makes me think it was purposely de-nazified, period done. I don't see any abuse to it.

Herr Mann, nice group of bayos you have there. I love the etched Pioneer, I don't have one of those yet. Thanks for showing.

Thank you John Z. for starting this thread. I got to see some very wonderful pieces and I love it when a thread takes off.

Steve.


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Thanks Gents for the kind words. I didn't even realize the grips were stag when I bought it, I figured the guy meant fake stag as is so often seen. Turned out to be a nice surprise.

Herman,

A wonderful trio of Packs, what a super one in the middle, Pioneer hit with a #11 neutral etch? I've only seen 3 others like this, John Z. has one of them. Not common at all, just super indeed!


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Herman:

Those Packs are great. I have a fair number of etched Packs and only 2 of them are Pioniere style and one is just like yours, a single etched #11 Neutral.

Thank you for showing these to us.

John


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Thanks for the compliments, gentlemen!

So many great pieces are shown in this interesting thread.

John,

Would you see a possibility to post your other pioniere etched bayonet here? That would be super.

Best greetings,

Herman


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Herman:

Here is my other Pioniere etched Pack (it is a double etch with the Neutral #11 on the reverse and an Oval Pioniere on the obverse).

The obverse:

MVC-917S.JPG (39.69 KB, 49 downloads)

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The reverse:

MVC-918S.JPG (39.79 KB, 47 downloads)

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The Pack TM:

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The Pioniere etch:

MVC-921S.JPG (39.66 KB, 45 downloads)

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The Neutral #11 etch:

MVC-922S.JPG (39.93 KB, 44 downloads)

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The Hilt obverse:

MVC-925S.JPG (39.64 KB, 43 downloads)

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The Hilt reverse:

John

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Hello John,

Now this is a magnificent WWII artifact!

The first one that I see with all the options: pionere and double etch!

Thank you very much for showing it!

Best greetings,

Herman


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Outstanding John! A real prize...


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