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#349952 06/13/2021 10:58 PM
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Wanted to share this pic of Military Nuts (Andy) Honor Ring and a box!

You know Andy was always willing to share his stuff and let me take a pic for collectors to see!

Now I know nothing about these things so I don't know year for ring!

You know I wished I had wrote down many things Andy would talk about!

I imagine the boxs are very tough to find! Expensive I quess!

How would you date one! When did they start making them?

Did every ring come with a box?


How many boxs still around you think!


PVON

ssbox.jpg (60.93 KB, 213 downloads)
pvon #349955 06/14/2021 03:16 AM
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P. , the boxes are more rare then the rings!! and you don't see many of them. Probably came out along with the first rings in the 30s...

Yes Andy thru the years had many HRs and boxes... He collected everything, military, one arm bandits, old samurai swords,
He had a great gun range at his PA house and we all used to go and site our guns in there... We had a bunch of pretty crazy adventures.... I miss him greatly.......

Andy.JPG (46.23 KB, 206 downloads)
pvon #349965 06/14/2021 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pvon
How would you date one! When did they start making them?

Did every ring come with a box?

How many boxs still around you think!

PVON

Your questions are interesting, but for no one there is an answer with real evidences.

We don't know when they starting make them. But we know there was first a prototype in tin. No one knows is that prototype was ever made or immediately dismissed... And we also know the (unknown) maker of those boxes, produced the same boxes for other jewellers in Germany...

We don't know if every ring come with a box, but I'm 99% sure the answer is "no". But again, we don't know if box was delivered for a certain period, or if it could have been for sale at some shops (like the LDO shops for example).

How many are still around? Who knows? For sure, as Gaspare said, much more less than Honor Rings.

Again I quote Gaspare saying that there are still a lot of unanswered questions in this field...

pvon #349969 06/14/2021 12:26 PM
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Hello, I too cannot answer this questions exactly, but at least I can say for sure that boxes did come with their rings between July 1938 (I have the files of an SSleader in which it is explicitly mentioned that the leader has to get the ring, the ringbox and A WOODEN FRAME for the bestowal document) and Dezember 1943 (I got a group directly from the family consisting of ring, dokument and ringbox). So for me it is clear that the boxes did have their appearance already before and still after these dates. HH.was very picky about these things therefore I personally do belive that all or nearly all rings, at least in this timeframe, did come with the certain box which did change during the period.
As with daggers (the paperbags or cardboard boxes) the covering of the rings was of less interest, the rings were worn, so the ringboxes disappeared.
In my files I do have several hundred of original rings but only 10-15 ring boxes....
Here are pics of my rings and boxes. Andy did contact me just a few months before his decease and asked me if I would sale one of my boxes....
And these boxes are faked too, only a short time ago I could detect a very dangerous (if you don´t know how the right thing has been manufactured and do not own originals or had at least them in your hands; originals are VERY delicately and detailed manufactured) and cleverly faked one.
Regards,

TKRe.JPG (89.48 KB, 196 downloads)
TKRe_a.JPG (106.63 KB, 197 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
pvon #349972 06/14/2021 01:47 PM
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Collectors

Thanks for a interesting discussion! I think I learned something right off the bat!

I must admit I know nothing about them!

20 yrs ago at the steel mill I had a guy bring me 3 or 4 rings to see that father brought back from ww2!

I had even gone to high school with him! All skull rings! I never got them as not for sale!

Many times familys kept everything dad brought back!

I wonder what happened to them!


I never got any in my collecting travels! But Andy would show and talk about stuff!

Wotan

Very impressive display! Amazing is more the term!

Thanks to all that have answered my questions! And shared pics and in future!


One last question!

What would have been more important to a SS person!

His ring,sword,dagger, What meant more?


Thanks

PVON

wotan #349974 06/14/2021 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wotan
boxes did come with their rings between July 1938 (I have the files of an SSleader in which it is explicitly mentioned that the leader has to get the ring, the ringbox and A WOODEN FRAME for the bestowal document) and Dezember 1943 (I got a group directly from the family consisting of ring, dokument and ringbox). So for me it is clear that the boxes did have their appearance already before and still after these dates. HH.was very picky about these things therefore I personally do belive that all or nearly all rings, at least in this timeframe, did come with the certain box which did change during the period.
,
I think I have me too the documents you mention. Too bad a service document is IMO not enough to establish a real, solid evidence that every ring went with its box. In that document there is written the SS Leader is going to receive the ring, the box and the frame for the doc. But we don't know why; if it was a sort of "gift" or what.
Most of the other records talking about Honor Rings never mention anything about the box and the frame. IF it would have been "officially" made for all the rings, then it should have been mentioned in all the documents. Same for the frame (that no one has ever seen, and we only have "legends" about it).
Box is not mentioned anywhere, not pictured anywhere (only the first prototype is pictured...), and furthermore we know most of the rings were awarded without any box, but with a simple piece of paper. Of course, if you have some different informations, please share them, I think we all would be VERY happy to learn something new about!

About the grouping coming from families they could be 100% authentic of course, but we often don't know if for example the box was bought after the receiving of the ring... Maybe privately. Everything is possible when we have no informations.

What we know is that some boxes were given out along with the rings, most not. Why, how many, how... Is still unknown.

PS: thanks for sharing your boxes!

C0.jpg (43.55 KB, 188 downloads)
Last edited by Antonio Scapini; 06/14/2021 02:25 PM.
pvon #349976 06/14/2021 02:38 PM
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Awesome displays !

Thanks

pvon #349980 06/14/2021 05:30 PM
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Serious collection of rings, Thank you all for sharing!

pvon #350001 06/15/2021 04:15 PM
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Wonderful! YES,,,some real eye candy shown.... Thanks much gentlemen!.

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Quote
I think I have me too the documents you mention. Too bad a service document is IMO not enough to establish a real, solid evidence that every ring went with its box. In that document there is written the SS Leader is going to receive the ring, the box and the frame for the doc. But we don't know why; if it was a sort of "gift" or what.
Most of the other records talking about Honor Rings never mention anything about the box and the frame. IF it would have been "officially" made for all the rings, then it should have been mentioned in all the documents. Same for the frame (that no one has ever seen, and we only have "legends" about it).
Box is not mentioned anywhere, not pictured anywhere (only the first prototype is pictured...), and furthermore we know most of the rings were awarded without any box, but with a simple piece of paper. Of course, if you have some different informations, please share them, I think we all would be VERY happy to learn something new about!

About the grouping coming from families they could be 100% authentic of course, but we often don't know if for example the box was bought after the receiving of the ring... Maybe privately. Everything is possible when we have no informations.

What we know is that some boxes were given out along with the rings, most not. Why, how many, how... Is still unknown.

PS: thanks for sharing your boxes!

We, who have collected since decades, know, that nearly all is possible in our hobby. So it is possible that the boxes where privately aquired items, but I personally doubt it. The rings were bestowed to be worn, so a box did have no further sense but made sense in a dignified bestowal. Imho this is also the reason for that most of them did disappear as I am sure there have been much more around than the let´s say 20, 30 which are actually known beeing in collectors hands. We know the restrictions HH had in regard of the "SS" symbol so I doubt that anybody could design and produce such a box as a private item. But as you, Antonio, says, we don´t know anything for sure.

What would be interesting for me is, in which sequence (if we assume that the boxes were useat the bestowal) the different boxes had their appearance? I think the smooth, simple one I did show was the first one. Lateron followed by the one with the stripes (the most comon one but also in my eyes the most desirable). Finally the one whith the border but without stripes. and I think between the first one (smooth) mentioned and the second one (stripes) there was another one we still could not see in this thread?

Antonio, you also have a series of impressive boxes!

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
pvon #350030 06/16/2021 08:02 PM
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Just my home project. I know it does not compare to an original but, I can still view it ( not that I look at it very often) exposing it to damage. Last pic is double cased so the other case just drops in for added security. Maybe someday an original will drop in:)

r1 (2).JPG (103.57 KB, 137 downloads)
r2.jpg (104.52 KB, 137 downloads)
r3.jpg (109.49 KB, 137 downloads)
r4.jpg (107.91 KB, 137 downloads)
Last edited by Tanker; 06/16/2021 08:14 PM.
pvon #350042 06/17/2021 12:52 AM
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Tanker
I do not comment on rings very much, because " I KNOW NOTHING" " I KNOW NOTHING"
But that is a very cool box, surely not period, BUT awesome none the less, great job. Love the bottom.
Ed

pvon #350044 06/17/2021 01:17 AM
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Thanks Ed
It was one of the many coins my Dad brought back and I thought it would add some weight to the case. It is just a standard modern plastic case (not sure what it was for) but it fit my ring well.
This is what happens when you are limited in movement and have nothing else to do!
Ron

Last edited by Tanker; 06/17/2021 01:22 AM.
pvon #351082 08/11/2021 04:18 PM
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All is possible like mentioned but I don't believe these were privately purchased as well wotan..Of course rings come in different sizes so boxes would come in different sizes maybe or just one box for all sizes of rings which makes since. It seems to be a lot of room for a ring, very curious and interesting. Would someone post a picture of the prototype..Anyone have an original box for sale? Thank you.

pvon #351092 08/12/2021 12:06 PM
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Wotan,

In response to the progression of the boxes makes sense but also, I just wanted to mention the possibility of more than one maker of these boxes. Im just not sure if that would make sense though. We know the SS ordered them but in what fashion. The SS directly to the maker and received them separate from the rings or was Gahr involved in procuring the boxes from the maker. IMO Gahr was involved in procuring the boxes. Just me thinking out load. I guess we will never know.

pvon #351123 08/13/2021 09:16 AM
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Hi Mikee, the boxes were one size only.
The prototype box was found in a period SS publication, so we only have a small picture, but it is clear enough to see how was it made. And it was very uncommon. The picture will be published in the upcoming book (I was just told the date will be december) in "THE HONOR RING BOX" chapter.

About your last post what you say could have sense.
We know the same boxes were also produced after the war, and customized for different jewellers. So we actually don't know if the maker was only one or more. I personally believe it was only one, that first gave those boxes to SS then, after the war, changed the colors of the papers that wrap the boxes and went on selling them to other jewellers.


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