UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum "new " sword on e-bay

I just found this on e-bay, fyi.
Item number: 370243346741
Joe S

Hey Joe, They are trying harder all the time! Looks like the China Imports are getting a little better.... Regards: James

Those have been floating around now for a couple years and mostly seen on eBay, with a periodic straggler showing up on gunbroker. I had noticed the crappy, terrible Chinese lionheads show up around '06/'07 hitting the auction circuit. Clearly manufactured by the same folks in China who manufactured those terrible lionheads with the contemporary patina. I recall seeing them show up in '99/'00. Variations of this garbage exist, and as can be expected 95% are still being shipped from China.

I have yet to see a convincing Heer saber repro. Some of the KM repros are undoubtedly getting better, and with WKC manufacturing limited run "anniversay" or "collector" sabers, a new batch with fake depot and control markings have popped up.

Heer sabers will be relatively safe from some time to come, simply because of the very wide variety and latitude manufacturers had in the creation process. My recent estimates put the number between 180-220 different patterns in different configurations. My estimate only accounts for Weimar and NS eras. I see odd configurations of common pieces like the Wrangel pop up with both subtle as well as obvious differences(Different grip ferrules, blued scabbard vs. painted, different grip wire configurations, etc.). As such, it's going to be tough to reproduce even 1 pattern. A flood of identical Zeitens in the market place would surely set off bells and whistles. Beside, the manufacturing process of a saber is much more labor intensive and exacting than the process for thier dagger counterparts. The peened tang incorporated into the lions pommel mane prevents too much fiddling by eager collectors. I can repeen, and some others can as well. But the average collector lacks the experience of saber collecting and periodically destroy the sabers tang, pommel, etc. Thankfully most Heer sabers are not "Lego" sets unlike thier dagger cousins. A quick mix and match and boom, a new "parts dagger". You just don't see this very often with sabers because of the labor and risk involved. For now and in the immediate future, I anticipate that sabers will still be relatively safe.

Good collecting fellas,
Tom

quote:

I have yet to see a convincing Heer saber repro. Some of the KM repros are undoubtedly getting better, and with WKC manufacturing limited run "anniversay" or "collector" sabers, a new batch with fake depot and control markings have popped up.

Nice post Tom

That may be true Tom, but there is plenty of swords that have been messed with (blades changed out etc...) postwar etchings and even postwar damascus blades (showing up on luft swords mainly)there is no big mystery on how to take apart and but together a peened tang sword. most fakers and (restorers) hose the finish work.
Any large show has a crop of these and that is sad.. ...

I wish to point out that some of the major Third Reich sword producers continued to manufacture sabers long after the war:Eickhorn, WKC, Horster to name a few.The post war production did not include a swastika butI doubt very serisouly that the Third REich crossguards were all destroyed during or right after the war and common sense would indicate that more than a few were made on the sly for a little extra income after the war. I'm not too worried about the fakes that are easy to detect, its the ones that are just like the originals that I wonder about. The Chinese are great imitators, and there is no reason to believe they cannot make really good copies of Third Reich swords. The process is basically low tech, all they need to do is get the design right and up the quality. Joe S

I would have to agree that I think the biggest threat facing collectors now are the period swords which have been �enhanced�. But I also think that Joe makes a good point as well.

If I can draw a parallel with Chinese arms production: Most of the late small shop �cottage industry� SKS rifles are serviceable but crude. Whereas the early production examples from the major armories are more or less comparable in quality with the Russian made rifles. My point being that they have the capability - and all they need now is the right incentive. FP

Just for clarity, here is the sword Joe is talking about. Clearly a better made Chinese fake but very distinctive in the fake world.

The grip material is obviously Asian and not German made. the casting is pretty good but again obviously Asian in design. Notice the tang is not peened on the pommel and the Artillery motif on both sides of the langet.

Finally, the fake Eickhorn logo. At least it looks sorta, kinda like the Eickhorn logo instead of being nonsense words and figures. They are getting better. Someone will be fooled by this sword down the road. We will see it for sale at a gun show.

Good points guys. I don't want to digress, but my biggest area of concern is the post-war and even contemporary etches. I recently was speaking to a collector and we were discussing the the period dress bayos with post-war added etches. These were mainly embellished in the 70's in the United Kingdom. There were also a number of nickel plated EM sabers with embellished fake etches done at the same time by the same folks. I recently had seen one on the net that was pointed out by a fellow collector.

To sum it up, you guys are right. Given the right level of motivation, the Chinese can and eventually will perfect a modern repro of a saber. Tooling even 100 sabers would be difficult, so I anticipate seeing a flood of one particular pattern when they do hit the market.

Tom