UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Rarity of Heer Makers

It is a long time since we looked over this subject. The list below is at least 12 years old and was put together with the guidance of a lot of knowledgeable guys including Denny Roach and Wotan

At the time the list included all known trademark variations. I have photos of each trademark.

The rarity number was the best guess of Denny Roach

Your comments and corrections are invited. I'd really like to get this up to date

Dave


3 Alcoso ACS Scales
3 Alcoso Alcoso / Scales
7 Alcoso Alcoso (script) / Scales
3 Alcoso Alcoso beside scales
3 Alcoso Alcoso beside AWS Scales
10 Axt & Hauerfabrik Kings head in dbl oval
9 Axt & Hauerfabrik Horse's head in dbl oval
5 Buchel, Rudolf Initials in star in single oval with name around the outside
7 Christianswerk Fork in dbl oval across blade
6 Christianswerk Fork in dbl oval along blade
6 Clemen & Jung Shield with a "Z" on one side - Name on other
7 Clemen & Jung Shield with a "Z" inside oval - Like SA mark
4 Eickhorn Small double oval
1 Eickhorn Squirrel w/sword - Acid etched
3 Eickhorn Smallerl squirrel/sword stamped 1940-41
5 Eickhorn Late "over ther shoulder" squirrel stamped
6 Evertz, A AES in box
10+ Felix, G ?? with name & Solingen underneath
9 Fridericus Script along blade
10 Hack, Joseph, Steyr Fish facing up in oval
10+ Hartkopf & Co. Twin devils looking Left in a rectangle
10 Helbig, F u A "Geifler" in double ovals
5 Heller, Gebr Balloon Man
6 Henkels, JA Twins with JA Henkels & Solingen underneath
10 Henkels, JA Twins alone - no words
4 Herder, RA Star in double ovals
5 Herder, RA Name across blade with star
1 Holler, F.W Thermometer in dbl oval - Thin etching
6 Holler, F.W Thermometer in dbl oval - Fat etching
1 Horster Dagger and initials in ovals
2 Klass Small storks stamped
9 Klass Storks + name on curve around
6 Kolping Beer mug with initials in double ovals
4 Krebs, Carl Julius "K" & Crown in oval
8 Krebs, Pet. Dan Lobster
6 Luneschloss Greek helmet in double circle
7 Luneschloss "P.D.Luneschloss Solingen" stamped along blade
2 Pack Blacksmith 1935-1938
5 Pack Arch w/Sigfied Waffen
10 Pack Arch w/ Waffenfabick
7 Plumacher Exclamation point in dbl oval
3 Puma Small Stamped Puma - No diamond
4 Puma Puma inside diamond
10 Schaff, CD Perfectum Old Sailor
5 Schuttelhoffer Hobby horses
10 Schmidt & Sohn, Carl Small Church
5 Selheimer, Paul "PS" in oval
9 Selheimer, Paul Dog with Sword in circle
3 SMF Seated king
4 Spitzer Lion in oval small
4 Spitzer Lion in oval large
4 Tiger Mark across blade
5 Tiger Along blade - "Solingen" same level as paws
5 Tiger Along blade - "Solingen" below paws
6 Tiger Along blade - "Solingen" below paws
8 Tiger Along blade - Tiger stamped after text
7 Voos Large dbl oval
7 Voos Single oval
7 Voos No oval
7 Voos Along blade stamped
8 Weyersberg, Max WMW Empty double oval with name between ovals
4 Weyersberg, Max WMW WMW Waffen stamped along blade
4 Weyersberg, Max WMW WMW Waffen stamped across blade
5 Weyersburg, Paul Sword & wreath
3 Wingen Knight with sword close to leg
3 A W Jr (Wingen) Knight with sword fartherfrom leg
1 WKC Knight's head
10 Wusthof, Carl Man with stick
10 Zietler, Wien Name stamped across blade

Dave
Thanks for the update. Never been able to make heads nor tails out of it.
Carl J Krebs is my weakness, they are quite common on the lists, not so common when for sale.
I don't know.
Ed

Hi Dave,

could you add G.Felix, Gloriawerk to this list with a 10+ rarity

I was so lucky to find this beautiful slant this year.

Ger

Ger:

Wonderful find.

I believe that there are three Hollers (11 ticks, 17 ticks and 19 ticks on right side of thermometer)
And several more Zeitlers...I have these on Luft2s.

J

Gerrit,

Great find. I've added it to the list. What is the trademark? A blotter ? Pizza knife ?

John,

Any chance of photos ? Are the Hollers thick or thin ?

Dave

Dave

I am away from my picture library, but all of my maker marks and variation photos that I have found on Luft2s are in a thread I started here on GDC.

I assume that any mark you can find on a 2nd Luft, you can find on a Heer.

J

John,

I don't think that " any mark you can find on a 2nd Luft, you can find on a Heer" is correct. I expect there are many that are seen on both, but not all.

What do you other collectors think ?

Until this is resolved, I think we should stick the idea that the lists of Heer/Luft are not identical

Dave

Hi Dave,

I see that there is no Puma trade mark of the Small puma head in a small diamond. I think this was their very first trademark and I certainly have not seen more than 2.
Also, G. Weyersberg is not on the list?
Also, a dagger has come to light in Germany with maker Hermann Linde? It was discussed on a forum in Germany but no consensus was reached as to whether it was a one off piece or if Hermann Linde actually made more than one?
Then there is the question of the Tiger where the Tiger itself is large and the writing is small and is positioned along the blade.

Hallo Dave, for me it is also quite obvious that not every army maker also made luft daggers. It is well known that the makes did divide each branch section between certain makers and every other maker had to fight hard to get into this circle. This is also the reason why sometimes daggers were (had to be) made without a makers mark.

Concerning the list. Denny did the effort to make the list three times (although it did look a little different with columns) and it gave/gives a nice overview concerning army makers and their rarity. If I would not have told him about my HARTKOPF army it would not be in the list.
Please a small correction: Not "10+ Hartkopf & Co. Twin devils looking Left -in- a rectangle" but "10+ Hartkopf & Co. Twin devils looking left -over- a rectangle"
Thank you in advance, regards,

How about Carl Wusthof, thats got to be up there.

Gary

A Wusthof AND an ivory grip? Nice Gary!

You don't miss a thing Billy.

Gary

I've updated the list. Thanks, Gents

Dave

If interested, I can post here pictures of maker marks I have found, not on Heers, but on 2nd Lufts (basically the same blade with different fittings).

I have found the following Zeitler maker marks:

1 line mark across the blade
1 line mark along the blade
1 line mark along the blade no dash (probably a very light strike of the above)
2 line mark along the blade rounded
2 line mark along the blade stamped

John

I have seen and found 3 different Holler maker marks, differing in the shape of the bulb and in the number of ticks or gradations on the thermometer itself.

The three are:

11 ticks
17 ticks
19 ticks

J

I have found 4 Carl Julius Krebs maker marks:

Double Oval Large
Double Oval Small
Single Oval Large
Single Oval Small

I know these are on 2nd Lufts, but I expect these to also have appeared on Heers.

J

John Z
Well now you have went and done it. I for one, just have to see these daggers in whole. Please post full photos if you can and have time.
Carl J !! All the way !! My favorite maker. Thank you JR.
What a great hord of daggers. That small single looks super.
Thank you
Ed

Ed:

In order to not hijack this thread on Heers and Heer makers (which I kinda did by posting 2nd Luft maker marks, but I can rationalize that), I will start a new thread with my 4 CJ Krebs 2nd Lufts.

John

Hello,
I have a G.Weyersberg early army dagger. Stamped marker mark

I have some Hast & Uhthoff Dresden, this Marker mark is missing here?

That would rather be a distributer then a maker.

Ger

I have two different versions of Hast & Uhthoff marks on 2nd Luft blades.

Name along blade
Name across blade with a rat tail squirrel on other side.

John

Nice ones John!
The smaller vertical placed one is new to me, thx for showing.


Ger

Sharing is what makes this hobby great for me, Ger.

You are very welcome.

Johnz

Gary
Beautiful wusthoff

Added photo for Adam.......

What about F Herder, I don't see that one listed.

Great ! I'm updating the list of Heer daggers.

Gary .. What are the three letters after FHERDER ?

Dave

Anybody up for a separate Luft list ?

"A.S.N", the "N" is underlined.

Wonder what that means ?

The firm originally operated under the name "J. Herder". Johann Herder took on his grandson Friedrick as a partner in 1839 after the death of his son Abraham. When Friedrick took over the firm, he renamed it "Friedrick Herder, Abraham Sohn" or "Friedrick Herder, Abr Sn". That name has continued to date.

Although I no longer own this one, I did once own a maker not on the list. A Friedrichswerk that had generic fittings, came from a California auction many moons ago.

That is the mark for Friedrich Koch, Friedrichswerk, Solingen. One I have not seen before. Below is a better photo of the mark.

Maker or distributor ?

Maker. Primary products were knives and razors. I did find an Army dagger currently offered for sale on the Internet.

Dave/Vern

As far as F Herder is concerned I've seen one other over here that was for sale a few years back, also had generic fittings as my one does, I did see another one for sale at the moment with a light yellow grip, not sure how many others are out there, it was marked as a "10" on Johnny V's old army maker list.

Gary

Great Herder Gary! I've seen 1 or 2 previously and they were like yours with generic fittings.

Dave, there is a thread started by me on 2nd luft maker marks.

Johnz

Thanks, John,

Somewhere I have an old list of Denny's. I'll try to find it.

Dave

John,

Can you find your luft thread and add a post to bring it back up ? Or post a link ?

Dave