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Gaspare Offline OP
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Well here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xWUSuXGxMQ

This is supposed to show what I don't know.. It's the most confusing thing I've ever seen.. Is Jo and Antonio claiming PP rings are cast and in the round too.. The Honor Ring,, I don't know. I've said many times they are NOT my thing.. There is something weird going on with them.. Cast? How? mutiple molds don't make sense. Pressed,,seems they would be with that big die flaw on the sig rune,,,but they look terrible even under slight magnification..

Lets keep with the PP rings.. I've collected them since the 70s. I have family that were in the business. I've taken simple jewelry making classes with the lost wax method,,WOW craziness, labor intensive,,wasteful, skilled labor needed etc etc..
With a press you need a press, and a die. A piece of already 'drawn' silver goes in and you push a button or crank a handle,,done..

I will make a statement I believe is 100% true and maybe others that have the rings will agree.. BOTH rings shown in the video are postwar pieces made more than likely from a rubber mold.

My main reason,,look at the Pirate Skull & Snakes ring.... Band way too thick,,just wasn't done. Every spec of silver they could save they did. Here is the same ring from above,,the birds eye view:

Also 2 of the usual hallmarks in these rings,,and sometimes none at all..

REMEMBER,,the hallmark the MAKERS mark was their advertising!! The last thing put on.. It wasn't cast in like shown on the vid.. IF it passed quality control it got their name on it! It was the way then,,and the way now,,period.

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Last edited by Gaspare; 05/31/2018 04:16 AM.
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He also shows some sort of article.. Saying the rings were cast because someone [who] was asking for tips on casting[?] ,,this doesn't make sense..

The guild for professionals received this booklet.

In it shows new rings coming out, The new presses of the day replacing the older hand crank examples.. Some years ago I was lucky enough to interview a few period people that worked in retail sales and jewelry making.. That ALL said the rings were pressed and some were assembled from parts ,,like the glass WestWall rings and the like. I believe them.

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zzzzzsr_20131020_0001.jpg (82.99 KB, 180 downloads)
Last edited by Gaspare; 05/31/2018 04:21 AM.
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He also show a ad from a period periododical..

This bunker ring:

AND something brought home from the war,,,The die for the ring,,cast huh?

And does he really think the wire wound WW ring was cast too? whistle

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Last edited by Gaspare; 05/31/2018 04:56 PM.
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Same with the Pirate ring.. I know who ownes the die for that ring.. He's not in to the internet, doesn't care what people think,,so believe me or not there IS a die for that ring,,,and I do have a photo with permission only to use in my book.

But I have these ,,these are very early ,,for the solid back rings,,very hard to have the rear piece!,,this isn't for a cast,,these go in a press!

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I also stick by my original statement,,90% or all COMMERCIALLY MASS PRODUCED FOR RETAIL SALE MILITARY THEME RINGS WERE MADE IN A PRESS..

It was simpler, easier, non skilled labor could have been used, less waste, faster... I'm sure someone will come on and totally just go on and on about their way,, Great..believe what you want..

What I show is nothing.. At the time of Odals death we were working on translating over 100 pages from those guild books about how jewelry especially rings were pressed. I'm not bragging,,I have close to 1000 photos of tooling, authentic rings, postwar ring, how they were made, The new laws that started in 1933 etc etc,,40 years of collecting and 21 years of working on this book. The Publisher wants me to cut it in half if he;s going to do it its so big!! At this point I don't care if it ever comes out.

So I'm not going to waste my time any more,,believe they are cast,,and in the round,,you'll have a worthless collection. But thats not why we collect is it,,can I interest you in a SS Viking ring! Has a cool viking with horned helmet on front,,and sunwheel Swas on one side and SS runes on the other,, And SSshhh,,,I can get them for you by the dozen! wink

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Last edited by Gaspare; 05/31/2018 03:45 AM.
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Odal and I had so much of this stuff to translate. It really was the icing on my cake and I was even sharing authorship credits with him he helped so much!

I show this front half of what was prob going to be a locket of sorts .. It's a beauty of a piece from the late 20s,,but I'm willing to be you show this under enough magnification you will find what appears to be casting marks. Dies were cut perfectly,,thats why we have die flaws

This last photo what seems like a blank ring , which it is,,a jeweler could put anything they want on the front,,like soldering on the Norge front plates with all their variants!

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*


A simple line drawing is how it starts,,,,,then the die,,these 2 are close enough to show as an example.. Jewelers had books and books of drawings,,most never seen the light of day..



It was also mentioned here and even more on WAF about how dies couldn't make certain shapes and angles.. Nonsense!! maybe he's never seen dies like this. They weren't used much as the straight dies was just SO easy to use...

The bottom photo wasn't something the Germans used but only as an example of what was being die with dies even in the 1920s..

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Last edited by Gaspare; 05/31/2018 04:20 PM.
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We have our Eyes on you!!!!!!!!



A content that looks like this,,and / or a makers mark like this and its a ring you DO NOT want!

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Last edited by Gaspare; 05/31/2018 05:17 AM.
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For those of you relying on these tagged rings for being a sure bet of being authentic, don't. As I mentioned Odal and I several years ago turned up this great hoard. an, with it was a bag of probably 100 tags and fakes were already being made. We insisted on getting everything for the thousands we were spending but they wouldn't give them up and almost cost us the whole deal!!!

IF your going for a tagged ring make sure the hallmarks are stamped in.....like shown... They look mushy, they are partial missing something,,the detail less than perfect,,then leave it for someone else to buy!!!

You don't want anything that looks like that video,,,the rings are supposed to be NOS remember. You want to see nice and clear , well detailed hallmarks. AND if you cleaned up that band it should be like a mirror!

zzzzzzphoto_2.JPG (50.97 KB, 156 downloads)
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Originally Posted by Gaspare
Well here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xWUSuXGxMQ

This is supposed to show what I don't know..

I will make a statement I believe is 100% true and maybe others that have the rings will agree.. BOTH rings shown in the video are postwar pieces made more than likely from a rubber mold...


I do completely agree on this. Both rings shown in video are cheap modern castings. Is this guy publishing/selling new book or trying to sell some bucket with cast rings? grin

Last edited by hapur; 06/04/2018 05:13 PM.

There are less original rings than you think, much less...

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I think Hapur is right on the money with his observations.


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I just can't watch these videos. First the vulgar language and childish /unprofessional way the material is presented is a big turn off. He may have good intentions but the presentation fails as a non professional childish school presentation.


Originally Posted by hapur
Originally Posted by Gaspare
Well here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xWUSuXGxMQ

This is supposed to show what I don't know..

I will make a statement I believe is 100% true and maybe others that have the rings will agree.. BOTH rings shown in the video are postwar pieces made more than likely from a rubber mold...


I do completely agree on this. Both rings shown in video are cheap modern castings. Is this guy publishing/selling new book or trying to sell some bucket with cast rings? grin

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Gaspare Offline OP
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Much thanks guys for all your posts.. The HR,,don't know what it is for me but something is weird going on there..

I can state with 100% certainly that the HR and PP rings were not die cast.. Medals and badges are not silver [and I don't know if they are die cast]. When it comes to jewelry you must compare apples to apples , period. I've contacted professional die casting companies and jewelry mass production firms.. True die casting wasn't used back then,,and is not used now.
So while the HR for me at least appears weird looking to me , lets stick to this topic of PP rings.

I think we've showed enough to show PP rings were quickly and simply done with a press, a die, and a piece of drawn silver.

Engraving concerns both the HR and PP rings.. Years ago a member showed mathematically a formular how a HR could be engraved in the flat and when rounded there was little if no distortion!
Are rings engraved in the round? Yes,,I just had mine and my wifes bands engraved a few weeks ago. The shop was busy so he wanted me to drop them off.. In a couple hrs I picked them up all nicely done. . So it doesn't really matter,,sure its easier to do in the flat,,but not a problem at all if already in the round!

Members,,thanks again so much. I'm sure we'll here some BS and how none of us know what we're doing. Thats fine,,let them enjoy their rings and we'll enjoy ours wink

A happy healthy summer to you all and most of all,,Happy Ring Hunting!!! , Gaspare

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I totally agree with Gaspare statement, PP and SSHr made by casting is a nonsense theory. Anyone supporting such a theory just need to do a lot of homework instead of pushing "stronzate".

Ric

I sincerely hope we'll all see Gaspare's book printed and for sale

Last edited by Ric Ferrari; 06/07/2018 01:43 AM.
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Might be a great time to give a book update G, certainly would be a great thing to have at a time like this that book!

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Mike it had to be cut in half. Which I didn't mind.. Then Odal and I found some things that had to , must be, included. ..Unfortunately its about close to 30 pages that need translation!

Even more unfortunate,, no,,really devastating is,,,Odals passing away. He was such a good friend.. We wrote to each other several times a week. Now he's gone.. I've send a letter to his widow a few weeks ago and waiting to hear back.. IF I don't, hear anything back,not really sure what to do anymore..

Things in this climate demand 100% rock solid proof. Last thing I want is,,, someone with a utube account and microscope that will cause all sorts of havoc and doubt on the book with dis information and improper methods..

I really got to get my head around all this and yes get it moving again. The shop is full,,my house is near getting done [ maybe late Aug.] which means another full move! , its just SO much to do .. Doing the best I can...

For now,,no matter what they put out,,[part 3 is pitiful] some kind of documentation etc. I hope this topic will still be the answer - the testimonials here, rings shown,, photos,, Period tooling,,well,, they just aren't paperweights!

Last edited by Gaspare; 06/07/2018 02:27 AM.

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