Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#32403 04/17/2009 08:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Hello Gentlemen,

I'm new to this section of the forum having collected primarily German relics. I do have a fascination with the samurai sword though I know relatively little about them. I purchased this sword from the estate of a 38th infantry division vet. The blade is stained from being stored in grease but the tang is marked. Can anyone help me out with what the tang says? In addition, can you recommend some good references on sword markings and samurai swords in general. THANKS!

updown1.jpg (68.73 KB, 168 downloads)
Striaght up shot
#32404 04/17/2009 08:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Another shot. Could only get one on the first post. Sorry about the angle, my light was fading and I had to quickly move the table.

angle.jpg (55.15 KB, 168 downloads)
#32405 04/19/2009 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 832
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 832
Hello 67GT the red paint bench numbers indicate a modern(WWII) era Japanese sword.I cannot read Kanji so I will defer to one of the experts.By including some photos of the fittings Handle Etc.would help provide additional information.Also if you have some baby powder or cornstarch you can take your dry finger and touch the powder,then wipe across the markings on the tang and the powder will be trapped in the carvings,a light wipe with a dry cloth will make the narkings stand out and easier for an expert to read.Best wishes Geoff.

#32406 04/20/2009 12:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Thanks Geoff. I hadn't considered the use of baby powder. Since I have to wait for an opportunity to photograph again based on decent light and a day to do it I will use your suggestion and perhaps repost. I had another blade with similar paint marks that was 1939 and a super nice hand-forged blade. As for mounts they are the standard Shin Gunto mounts, brown painted scabbard; however, I will try to photo the entire package.

Still curious about a good reference for a laymen to try to interpret Kanji.

Thanks Again!

#32407 04/21/2009 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Following Geoff's suggestion here is a "powder enhanced" version of the tang markings.

New1small.jpg (14.6 KB, 126 downloads)
#32408 04/21/2009 07:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
A bit closer shot...tried some of the blade but could not get the camera to focus.....

New2small.jpg (13.04 KB, 125 downloads)
#32409 04/21/2009 07:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Final reshot. Another member asked about markings on the other side of the tang. At first I said no but then noted some painting near the bottom. It is in green or some drab color and did not fair well through the years. There is some character (now basically present as a square dot) below which there appear to be two lines. There are actually two but the upper one does not show well.

New3small.jpg (28.7 KB, 124 downloads)
#32410 04/22/2009 03:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
B
Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
I NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS NAME AS IT MAY BE THAT OF AN UNLISTED SWORDSMITH WHO WORKED IN THE LATE EDO PERIOD. WITHOUT BETTER PICTURES OF THE BLADE IN IT'S ENTIRETY, THE SIGNATURE IS ALL WE CAN GO ON. THE SHAPE OF THE NAKAGO AND STYLE OF SIGNATURE ARE NOT REMINISCENT OF A SHOWA PERIOD BLADE. THE PAINT IS APPLIED TO THE NAKAGO TO IDENTIFY THE BLADE WITH IT'S MILITARY MOUNTS AS THEY ARE MANUFACTURED. IT IS NOT INDICITIVE THAT THE BLADE IS MODERN. MY GUESS IS THIS IS A HAND MADE BLADE BY A LATE EDO PERIOD SWORDSMITH OR EARLY TAISHO MAN. PLEASE GIVE ME OVERALL PICTURES OF THE BLADE ALONG WITH A MEASUREMENT OF THE CUTTING EDGE.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
Gold Badge #263
#32411 04/23/2009 12:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Thanks for responding Bob. I did some quick measurments. The blade is 25 1/2 inches long from the tip to the point where it drops off to form the tang (if I am to measure differently, please advise). The total length from the tip to the end of the tang is 32 3/4.

I will try to get some shots of the blade but my camera doesn't seem to focus well when I attempt to shoot sections of it. Will do a full shot when I can get it set up again

Unfortunately. the blade was stored in grease by the vet and has some discoloration on it. I'm considering having it repolished if it would be worthwhile given the blade's origin. Thus my interest in determining some of this. Is repolishing an acceptable action in the world of samurais? I know most German collectors want completely untouched blades....but they are constructed differently.

Thanks for all the help.

#32412 04/23/2009 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
B
Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
I HAVE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL REFERENCE BOOKS AND HAVE NOT FOUND ANYONE WHO SIGNED THEIR BLADES
"UNKAISEN KATSUNAGA." THIS INCLUDES THE NIHONTO MEIKAN, WHICH IS THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE LISTING OF JAPANESE SWORDSMITHS. UNFORTUNATELY, THERE ARE SWORDSMITHS WHOSE WORK WAS NEVER RECORDED. MANY YEARS AGO, I BROUGHT A TANTO TO THE SWORD MUSEUM IN TOKYO TO SHOW TO ONE OF THE CURATORS AND A CONTEMPORARY OF MINE AGE WISE. I COULD NOT READ ONE OF THE KANJI CHARACTERS. AS THE BLADE WAS LIKELY EARLY 16TH CENTURY, I EXPECTED HE WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE ME A QUICK ANSWER. TO MY SUPRISE, HE ALSO WAS UNABLE TO IDENTIFY THE KANJI OR WHO THE SWORDSMITH WAS. A WEEK LATER, I WAS IN THE SOUTHERN ISLAND OF KYUSHU VISITING MY RELATIVES. WHILE VISITING AN ANTIQUE SHOP, I FOUND A WAKIZASHI WITH THE EXACT SAME SIGNATURE!
THEY MAY HAVE BEEN THE ONLY TWO BLADES THE MAN MADE. SORRY I CAN NOT BE OF MORE HELP.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
Gold Badge #263
#32413 04/23/2009 11:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 992
N
Offline
N
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 992
bob
did you buy the wakizashi?
nick

#32414 04/24/2009 12:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
B
Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,537
quote:
Originally posted by nickn2:
bob
did you buy the wakizashi?
nick


NO. THE QUALITY OF THE BLADE WAS VERY POOR. I ALSO DID NOT KEEP THE TANTO AS THE QUALITY WAS BETTER BUT NOT WHAT I WANTED TO COLLECT QUALITY WISE.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
Gold Badge #263
#32415 04/29/2009 12:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Bob,

Wow what a story...imagine the chances. Too bad that the blades weren't up to your standards as that almost seems like divine intervention asking to reunite them.

I've been out of town for a bit and just got back. I will try to get a photo of the entire sword if it would help you confirm the era of manufacture. I would also be curious to know the full interpretation of the tang markings. I'd like to get it straight when I record it.

Thanks as always for all your help!

#32416 05/10/2009 04:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
The wife took off with the little guy to visit my mother in law....snapped some quick pics. Several of the full blade and mount fittings and some close ups of the hamon.

Still curious on age and if it is worth a repolish.

Fullblade1A.jpg (18.88 KB, 38 downloads)
#32417 05/10/2009 04:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Another full shot.

Fullblade2A.jpg (16.58 KB, 37 downloads)
#32418 05/10/2009 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Close up of the hamon/temper line.

Hamon1A.jpg (18.51 KB, 36 downloads)
#32419 05/10/2009 04:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
6
67gt Offline OP
OP Offline
6
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Final close up near the lower end of the blade. You can see finer "white" crystalline type line on the upper edge of the temper line in person. Would a repolish bring this out? Decrease it or obliterate it? If worthy of a repolish any suggestions on a good craftsman to do it?

Hamon2A.jpg (23.14 KB, 35 downloads)

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,268,933 SS Bayonets
1,766,123 Teno Insignia Set
1,135,000 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Help Please
by Mauser88 - 05/26/2024 11:14 PM
Ferlach Kreisschiessen
by slohunter - 05/26/2024 07:10 PM
U.S. Memorial Day 2024
by Gaspare - 05/24/2024 01:09 PM
EK 2 Round 3
by Dutchman - 05/20/2024 11:45 PM
Can you determine authenticity of SS dagger?
by AnatoliyD - 05/17/2024 04:22 PM
Latest New Posts
Ferlach Kreisschiessen
by Don Scowen - 05/29/2024 01:43 PM
Das Alte Schutzenscheibe (The old Shooting Target)
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 05/29/2024 02:34 AM
Help Please
by Mauser88 - 05/27/2024 05:14 PM
Can you determine authenticity of SS dagger?
by sdp - 05/27/2024 04:00 AM
U.S. Memorial Day 2024
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 05/25/2024 05:32 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,669
Posts329,285
Members7,543
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (slohunter, Don Scowen, Vern, [email protected], Stephen, Evgeniy, Nietzsche, colt), 121 guests, and 252 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5