UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum TKRing Mfg. Method

Do not make rocket science out of die making
Get some tool steel bar, sharpen some cutters get microscope and start to "gnaw" it. When master ready, make female die, fix mistakes and do heat treatment. You're done.

quote:

Hapur, the RIGHT Welder can repair these breaks.

I thought that Hapur�s solution to the problem was a practical, straightforward way to get back into operation with minimal cost and effort. But that�s just from my perspective.

I had an old drill press table (cast iron) that somebody cracked. In the greater L.A. area (which is not small) I found the �go to� guy for that kind of repair and asked him to weld it (he did a lot of work for some of the aerospace and aerospace related companies). He said no, and recommended brazing which he did. He would not even touch machinery from Asia because of the inconsistency of the castings. FP

quote:

Originally posted by Fred Prinz (aka "Frogprince"):

quote:

Hapur, the RIGHT Welder can repair these breaks.

I thought that Hapur�s solution to the problem was a practical, straightforward way to get back into operation with minimal cost and effort. But that�s just from my perspective.

I had an old drill press table (cast iron) that somebody cracked. In the greater L.A. area (which is not small) I found the �go to� guy for that kind of repair and asked him to weld it (he did a lot of work for some of the aerospace and aerospace related companies). He said no, and recommended brazing which he did. He would not even touch machinery from Asia because of the inconsistency of the castings. FP

Quality welding was not possible because of hooks thickness, not only cast iron. Sure I could make some hooks separate and screw them in, but why? This way now I can get easy acces to motor do some lube, chek bearrings, much easier to remove belts if I need to do some service and get to screw etc. If press will get retired and displayed in museum, then somebody can play arround. But I think with proper care press will last in working condition much longer than any of us. The vertical shaper I use for die punch making is from 1924 and in perfect condition and also I think with proper care it will work some other 100 years. I like those old cast iron monsters they are foolproof

quote:

Originally posted by 11C:

quote:

Originally posted by b.collector:

quote:

Originally posted by vikodlak:
I have absolutly no experiance or knowlage on jewlery design or making, but my question is about the engraving method. Wouldnt it have been easier to engrave the mettal after it was pressed, while still flat, as opposed to doing it after it was rounded, as I assume would have to be the case if it was cast. Anyone have an opinion or knowlage on this?

No doubt engraving on a flat/open surface is much easier than on a formed ring.
I personally verified it when an old and very experienced engraver of my town did the job in my SSHR to wear.

Ric

Who made your ring Ric?

Chris and his father made it : great craftmanship.

Best

Ric

Hapur,

thanks a lot for your educational photos with description.
By them you definitively brought light on a subject not only SSHr related, as you rightly pointed out.

Please show us the whole process : from die making to the object finishing.

TIA

Ric

quote:

Originally posted by b.collector:
Hapur,

Please show us the whole process : from die making to the object finishing.

TIA

Ric

Ok, for some beer I'll show glass fired enamelling also.

Ok here we continue. Soldering.

This ugly they look after soldering.

Soldering on head.

...quiet, Master craftsman @ work...

After acid bath

Cleaned off white sh...

Blackened

Finished

diferent light

I believe I know where this one is going to end up.
Jim

GREAT thread Hap! Thank you for your impressive and informative presentation!
As you stated, not rocket science.
You are, no doubt, a skilled metal-smith, none the less.
High "E"gards,
Pauli

This has to be one of the most interesting and informative thread ever.

Thanks you Sir for your time and contribution !

not bad ring, but skull ...

This is my 1953 class ring mold. Note the curvature of the face in the mold, this will flatten when sized. This style is welded and sized in the back
Good things never change.. much

quote:

Originally posted by Mann:

Good things never change.. much

Agree, good things never changes. Good die. Did you made this?

quote:

Originally posted by hapur:

quote:

Originally posted by Mann:

Good things never change.. much

Agree, good things never changes. Good die. Did you made this?

No, I bought this a year ago @ a flea market. Back when I first became interested in HRs.

The brand new SS Ring book that Craig wrote emphatically states that the rings were cast. Looks like his opening statement regarding production methods and theories on pages 24 and 25 are premature.

I was able to get the book at a substantial discount at a recent militaria show and have been reading it every day.

Mark

i think these are rather attractive,,,

*Mark I've heard the book is available thru eBay now.. anyway,,Craig is wrong about the construction method period....

*Hapur, This is a real treat for all of us here.. Thank you very much for sharing all this with us! , G.

I've already contacted some tool and die makers, and if possible, I WILL be switching over to this method as soon as humanly possible. I will still be having TKR's cast to accomodate those who are interested, but the amount of detailing necessary to clean up the waxes for casting makes it VERY impractical, and the quality fluctuates too much. I can have a PERFECT master cast, but the subsequent copies often have too many imperfections. This means I would have to learn to hand engrave the inside inscriptions. I'm so serious about this, I may even sell my Quist SS helmet to finance the operation.

Hi Josias,
based on what you have wrote about your castings, it does not sound serious. As I do understand at this moment you hire somebody to do castings, then you send them to somebody for soldering etc? (if you still receive castings in same quality as you posted pics, I would changed caster or casted myself) My advise would be finish one project before jump to another. I'll try to explain why. Before actual stamping there is job to be done before. You have to melt correct silver content. Then you have to cast silver bars right size, then you have to roll them to get right shape and only AFTER all this you can start thinking about actual stamping etc. And this is actual ring casting process, instead of casting bars you cast in investment molds rings. Before this you just have to make waxes and fill flasks with investment. Otherwise process is the same. In my opinion you could get all the casting equipment and do actual casting yourself and cast them flat. And starting from casted flat rings you can start learn engraving and making actual rings and all the solderings etc. And if you can handle all this you can start thinking about stamping. Stamping in small quantities is very expensive if you do not have all the equipment and can not do all yourself. If you do not have all the equipment you will have to hire dozen diferent companies to get this completed and that's gonna cost you a fortune. Just IMHO. I went thru all this.

If that can be interesting for forum members I can show casting process of this same ring. I can "fake" it

Hapur is awarded the "Great Thread" badge for his contributions to this thread and for expanding our knowledge of manufacturing techniques.

Congratulations,
Dave

Well earned Dave!

Mark

Congrats on a well deserved award Hapur!!!
I agree, this thread is an eye opener for some.
Thank you for your tips on die production!

By the way, concerning your baby's eye hook fractures, I have had great success welding cast iron using a mig welder with C/O shielding gas.
The trick is to gouge enough of the broken edges off to get the proper temperature and heat sink, and the right wire speed.
All the BEST,
Pauli

well deserved; an absorbing thread

Congradulations:
Best I've seen here in a long time. Got me back to posting some.
Jim

quote:

Hi Josias,
based on what you have wrote about your castings, it does not sound serious. As I do understand at this moment you hire somebody to do castings, then you send them to somebody for soldering etc? (if you still receive castings in same quality as you posted pics, I would changed caster or casted myself) My advise would be finish one project before jump to another. I'll try to explain why. Before actual stamping there is job to be done before. You have to melt correct silver content. Then you have to cast silver bars right size, then you have to roll them to get right shape and only AFTER all this you can start thinking about actual stamping etc. And this is actual ring casting process, instead of casting bars you cast in investment molds rings. Before this you just have to make waxes and fill flasks with investment. Otherwise process is the same. In my opinion you could get all the casting equipment and do actual casting yourself and cast them flat. And starting from casted flat rings you can start learn engraving and making actual rings and all the solderings etc. And if you can handle all this you can start thinking about stamping. Stamping in small quantities is very expensive if you do not have all the equipment and can not do all yourself. If you do not have all the equipment you will have to hire dozen diferent companies to get this completed and that's gonna cost you a fortune. Just IMHO. I went thru all this.

If that can be interesting for forum members I can show casting process of this same ring. I can "fake" it

Hapur, Please accept my congratulations also for a very well deserved award!!!!

And some very well made points, especially: � Stamping in small quantities is very expensive if you do not have all the equipment and can not do all yourself.� The necessary equipment for small scale investment casting is much less, with some of the tradeoffs being more work effort making good quality wax rings to be cast, more finishing etc.

�If that can be interesting for forum members I can show casting process of this same ring. I can "fake" it ?� . I�ve seen all the stages for other kinds of investment cast items - but never a TKR ring. And think it would be very interesting to see the comparison. With my Best Regards, FP

hapur,
Congratulations and thank you on a very interesting subject for all us ring collectors.

One of the most interesting and detailed threads I've seen in a very long time - great work!

Regards

Russ

CONGRATULIATIONS hapur

Wery interesting tread u got.

Hapur,
Thank you for taking the time to show this process,very interesting.

Sepp

GDC 0292 Gold

Nice info and GREAT Pics...SO will Craig Admit to MAYBE being wrong?

Thanks for good words!

Again weekend, again some beers...
Litle more about stamping here. After ring parts has been die struck they need to be cut off excess. It's beeing done with stamping block (don't know if this is correct name in english). They need to be made for every part new. That's not cheep at all. If you do not have such blocks and the press for this (diferent type than used for die struck) you need to saw every part and finish by hand, that's more labor than finishing casted rings. Below on pic is one such block , not for TK ring, (at home garage this is the last left, ring blocks are already at new home) Hope you get idea how its work. This is bit more complicated three stage block (at one stroke it makes three operations) was used for reenactors silver dog tags.