UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Hurster Govt officials dagger

I am looking for one of these for my collection. Been having a hard time locating an original one in good condition. Anybody have a suggestion as to where to find one or someone reputable to find one for me. I am new to this site and mainly shop shows doing my business in quiet.
Thanks, tacklefan

I think you would be better served buying a Alcoso or Eickhorn G.O. then finding an authentic Horster. Although Horster did make G.O's, most you see today by Horster are fakes or 'parts'.

You want to guy a good G.O., don't shop 'shows' unless you know your stuff or the dealer.

My recommended dealers are:
Wittmann Militaria
Lakeside Trader
Collector to Collector Militaria

Not in any order, just three good guys. I have dealt with all three.

I already own authentic Alcoso and Eickhorn G.O.'s. Thought an authentic Horster would make for a more complete collection. I have been told that they are very rare.

Thank you for the information. I will attempt to contact the referenced dealers.

tacklefan

I believe that Puma and Pack also made this dagger.

Paul,

What do you think about Höller & WKC making the GO dagger? I agree with you that Puma & Pack also made some.

I think the may have made limited production of them. Here's the thing. Many were put together post-war the result is some of these smaller makers have been tainted in some collectors minds. Often people will echo what is said above, "stick with Alcoso or Eickhorn" just because that is what is more accepted in the collecting community. I personally buy Alcoso, Puma Pack or Eickhorn's as 99% are on board with those makers. They are easier to move when it comes time to sell.
It's like the Himmler discussion last week. Unbench-marked Himmlers are just as real as bench-marked examples but guys like 'em marked. The more textbook the better.
Personally I would shy away from a Holler or Horester GO just because I would likely get beat up on the forums for selling one. Some people swear they are all post-war. I believe they do appear in period catalogues...

Paul,

All excellent points & quite valid, especially in today's market.

As far as the postwar assembly, I think it would be difficult to discern a period GO from one assembled immediately postwar from period produced parts.

And therein lies the problem.

Thanks for the information. Would a genuine Horster GO have numbered parts like the Alcoso and Eickhorn?

@ Billy G. and lakesidetrader: We all know these "field day" daggers and early fakes done with original parts. They all have a main "problem" that not all parts (eg grips, scabberds) had been available. Also Atwood who could gain a lot of dagger parts did not get ALL parts of any edged weapon.
Therefore my humble opinion is, that these postwar assembled (whenever this did happen, immediately after the war or some times later) can be EASILY identified. Always something is not ok with them. Also with the fitting.
An "immediately" after the war assembled edged weapon with perfect fit and perhaps hand enhancement (where it was usual) would NOT be detectable but believe me, after may 45 there were not such skills and parts available.

@tacklefan: I cannot answer your question concerning the numbered parts (although I think these would be numbered due to the very complicated fitting and assembling process on these daggers) because I had never one in hands.
But I do have two separate examples in my files. These two HÖRSTERs have some very distinct, corresponding details which let me think these could be original pre 45 daggers. The overall look does more resemble the ALCOSO variant (against the EICKHORN variant) but parts seemed having been produced in house and as said there are minute very distictive features.

Regards,

OK. Thanks for the information.
Would it be possible for you to post the pictures of the examples you mentioned above?
So, then there is a possibility that there could be a genuine Horster dagger or two out there somewhere?
Would there be reference book that I could get that specifically mentions Horster daggers?
I am going to check one out this weekend, the owner says if I am interested I can take it to a dealer for him to look at to prove authentic. Ill take some photos to pass on, but leave dagger with him for now.

Have a good weekend, tacklefan

Went and looked at this dagger. Seemed pretty nice to me. Took some pictures of it but cannot figure out how to post them on here.

They need to be low resolution, like under 150kb. Your pictures are probably too large to post.

tacklefan, you have a PM.
Regards,

What does that PM mean?
Where would I go to find it?

Hello tacklefan, PM means PrivateMail and can be seen there:

A original Hoster G.O. is unmistakable. As wotan noted, it has certain details that are unique to Horster. The dagger itself is slightly smaller. The eagle head pommel is bent further down than a Eickhorn or Alsoco, besides looking more fierce. Grip plate placement is also different, as is the scabbard- a Horster product. I believe the cross guard is also a Horster, although it's very close to a Alcoso.

Would like to see the photos.

tacklefan, sent you a new pm.

Serge, we try to publish the certain photographs as soon as I do have them.
Regards,

Now the pics of the HÖRSTER dagger did come through.
Posted for tacklefan:

For me the dagger looks good and original.
The dagger itself has the certain features I do know from other HÖRSTER gov daggers. Concerning the scabbard I am not totally clear and it might be an EICKHORN scabbard corpus but modified by HÖRSTER with their own scabbard mouth. As HÖRSTER and EICKHORN did work together in several cases (eg. RRPP, HYouth-leader) and also did switch parts this scabbard would not be a red flag for me. Even more as it fits in appearance and age and wearing traces perfectly.
If this dagger would be offered to me I personally would go for it! Just my personal opinion.
Regards,

This example shows all the features that i like to see in a period original Horster G.O.
Note the grip plates actually sit above the pommels eagles neck line, and not below. The ferrule is taller than other makers. The scabbard is also Horster IMO.
look at those fat rings. Typical Horster trait as seen on Navy daggers.
There are other unique features I see, but better to keep a couple inside the vest, sort of speak.

Great rare maker here, and a very nicely assembled with tight tolerances. Congrats !

Tacklefan,

That's really a very nice looking dagger, congrats!

Ok, so what would be a fair price to offer for this dagger. It is owned by an old WW2 vet who has had it in his possession since he brought it home from the war. He is in financial trouble and I want to be very fair with him in regards to a purchase price. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
thanks,
tacklefan

I would buy that dagger:)!
Hey, as a side note since you mentioned Atwood. A friend of mine, one of the oldest dealers out there used to buy good, un-messed with daggers from Atwood. One day he went to his house to buy a load and Atwood had none. He said, "Hold on and give me a minute". He opened several boxes and assembled several SA daggers before their eyes. My friends argued, "these are parts daggers"! Atwood replied, "All parts were from the same factory and assembled in my house and not the factory". Fit was fine for RZMs, they argued but I seriously doubt anyone would be able to tell these daggers from one out of a vets dufflebag!
I always liked that story and always wonder when I pick up a dagger if it was one of those!
Bob

I believe this is a genuine. I would be too scared to take it apart to identify the numbered parts. And I know of no one where I live that would be qualified to do that. I am interested in purchasing this piece but want to be sure to pay a fair price, I do not want to cheat or tak advantage of this guy. He is an old friend of our family who has fallen on hard times. So, any ideas of value would be appreciated.

I gave him 4,000 USD for the rights to this dagger.

Considering everything, I think you did well.

The deal we made is as follows. 4K for the rights to the piece. Now it looks as if I am going to be traveling a bit to see one or two of the previous referenced dealers / appraisers to let them lay their hands on the piece to give me an actual value for this piece. If it turns out to be more then the 4K I will make up the difference to him.

So, that is my task.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this conversation.
tacklefan

The seller could not have found a better buyer to purchase his scarce bring-back G.O. You sir are a rarity. My hat off to you.

BTW, the dagger appears unopened, a big plus to serious G.O./Diplo collectors.

I do not consider myself to be a "serious" collector. When my grandfather died a few years back he left me my Eickhorn and Alscoso daggers. He was a combat engineer in WW2 and saw a lot of combat. He brought home with him 20 assorted daggers and knives along with patches, badges and medals. He told me over the years he sold all of them at various shows except the two daggers he kept and left to me. He told me that they were valuable and to never sell them. So now a friend of mine has taken an interest in the history of these pieces and told me to look for a Horster, that they are rare and that would make for a complete collection. So I did. But I am far too busy with my work to devote much time to this. I am glad I found this site. I am thankful for the insight that you guys have.

You had referenced some dealers/appraisers in a previous post. Are there any major trade shows coming up where one or two or even all three of these guys may all be? That way I could get this piece looked at by having to make just one trip. Justa thought.

thanks, tacklefan

If you can wait until February, the SOS in Louisville, Kentucky, brings together almost every major dealer and many, many collectors. I have used this show to dicsuss purchases or those contemplated as purchases.

John

John brings up a good point about the SOS. I would be glad to discuss the dagger with you there, besides Tom Wittmann is right next to me and always answering questions also.
On something like this Horster I would recommend getting s CoA (Certificate of Authenticity) from Mr. Wittmann, just for future insurance. I know your dagger is 'good', like I know mine is 'good', but getting me, or others here to say 'it's good', and Wittmann putting in on paper, are different worlds. It's added insurance for protection of value. Because of the scarcity of this maker of G.O. daggers it's important to have IMO. I got a Wittmann CoA on my Horster, it's the mean looking one on the right.

Thanks for the information. I will research this how and get it on my calendar. I will look forward to meeting some of you guys there.

thanks again,
tacklefan