UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories The Honor Ring Forum Period Dies

A period 3rd reich ring dies is as rare as hens teeth. I only know of 3..

But here,,,IF any has any sort of period die could they please post them..

Don't own it,,photos credit WAF:

here's one I own,,,from the mid 1920s..

and another.. This is a US die,,from the 1930s... But this could have any plate affixed to the front,,or a skull riveted on it.. A simple ring die that could lead to many different rings!

Guys,,any die,,a badge, part from a pin,,anything please.. Thanks -

Here is one interesting die from my last trip to Germany. Very rarely seen maker's markings on die. I would speculate that this was done only on dies made for somebody else.

Patriotic ring die.

WONDERFUL!..,, Yes dies blocks are rarely marked. Sometimes a number but maker is rare. The block was usually stored and /or shipped in a well marked box from the die cutter to manufacturer.

Really nice,,any more? Please, they could be of anything,,great for the members to see...,thanks,G.

OK, I'll make some more pics tomorrow. I have them enough

Great...

Here's a few from some old files I had..

This Tinnie example I don't know what the deal is with it. Thought they were injection [?] made..

here are a couple old, very well used dies:

No, plate attached is meant to work as side forming element. Common practice in medal, coin making. Sure normally they are not welded to die.

Here are some master dies for rings.

Signet blank ring masters 30ies 40ies

dies from 191... 192..ies

separate integral parts of ring dies. Used to make complicated dies.

often to save tool steel more than one die was made in one piece of metal.

another three ring die from 30ies. On the middle ring there is naked woman

Hope you get idea how period ring dies looks

Hap that is amazing...thank you!! Could the 192 and 191 be used to make year's like 1922 or 1918? Also, the cracked shield die...I presume it's non functional in that state, I suppose they would just make a new die? Or did they have some imperfect ones, but have a method for fixing die flaws?

yes with these masters were made every year new die. To save on labor date was not engraved full in master. It was struck in working die and last digit was engraved by hand. Next year again new working die was made and again it was not necessary to engrave full die but only one new digit.

It is not working die, it is master for making working die. Usually when die gets broken, it is just thrown away. Sometimes it can get fixed and then sometimes you can see some repair defect.
Mostly therm die flaws are used to hide casting defects. Many gays use term die flaw but actually never has seen some die with flaws.
If interested I can make some repaired die pics.

Wow!
Very, very interesting.
Much thanks for showing here!

Hi I have found this for sale. Is this period die or fake ?

How big is it, g?

is it supposed to be a SS eagle visor cap device? The head/neck looks weird..
Does it feel heavier than if it was a normal block of steel for its size?
Interesting!

I doubt it and wouldn't spend money on this. I see more than one red flag.

Why it should weight more than normal steel? Tool steels does not weight more than any other steel.
I've seen few fake dies that was not made in normal die/tool steel. They were made from mild construction steel and was not hardened. Die should be approx 59-60HRC. Than can be tested with Rockwell or simply any file. It is hardness when file does not work any more.

Hi, I have found this offered for sale on the auction site. I have no idea how big is it and how heavy is. I just wanted to show it in this thread and hear Your opinions. Dies is absolutely not my field of interest.

I'm not using any scales or anything ...
My dies feel a bit heavier than if , lets say made out of mild steel.? Imaginary yes?

Yup

Saw this on russian forum.

Wow that is a period die for a well known ww pattern. I am hoping that the ring on the bottom of the first pic is a period piece.... ?

I don't have any pics of ring dies, but here's a stickpin die from the Danish resistance of my local town.
I don't have one myself (althought looking for one), only one i have ever seen is the one pictured, which is in a local museum depo i used to volunteer at. Death head stickpin dated 6 may 1945, and with text "Ribes Gr�nsevagt" (Ribes border control). Given to resistance fighters from Ribe who were stationed at the Danish/German border.
Who commissioned them and why they used a skull in the design is unknown, made by Ribegold smith Bottelet, Mellemdammen. The museum depo has both the stickpin and the original die to the skull.

Would love a copy of it as filler, but i doubt i'll ever find one

Items like this simply can not fall into the wrong hands..

That's if they already have not over the years!

I like the stickpin!

I don`t believe that this is a period one.

look here, both from an auction of the last weeks:

k3,,,that's a beautiful stick pin die! Love it!

A period die is a rare rare thing! Not many in collections. That being said-

Guys,,they have been making fake dies for years. Used to be very hard. But now its quite easy. Does anyone have the text to the die from the Russian forum? Or from the auction? Do they claim its authentic? OR , 'wow a cool thing'?..

Can't get to my rings,,can't even remember IF I have that pattern! [sad right!] Does anyone have that pattern that is ,,lets say,,over 5 years?

STAMPING STOCK for the official Westwall ring with the inscription `Westwall 1939 / 40`, Positive temple of solid iron, width 7.8 cm, excellent condition, extremely rare
Here exactly one produced in this stanza official Westwall ring with the inscription `Westwall 1939 / 40` of 925 silver, ring depicting a steel helmet and bump lines, medium to large size, excellent condition, rare
Embossed floor and ring together form an extremely rare set !!!

Swastica master die and ring does not look right. If that's same seller/source for Westwall ring that makes me think...
Patina on both rings looks same... that sounds like newly made rings, but that means there are also working dies...

the more I look on them the less I like them all.

Both dies were in same auction from the same seller.
And while taking a closer look i am nearly to 100 % sure the die you showed is the die from this auction.

I am glad to have ring of this pattern for years.
You can bet new ones will come out

Circle the wagons, boys. (An old west USA saying meaning keep the inner circle tight to fend off invaders!) someone asked me about best place to get a ring like I had (I don't recall some pattern skull or ww)-and my answer was the same Gaspare gave me-Buy from an Old established collection! Fake rings will always be fake rings!!!

Please do, Hapur, that would be HIGHLY interesting! And if you had a pic of a ring made with a repaired die, then that would be perfect...

Because this 2 dies (the one for the Westwall ring and the one for a swastika ring) are now again in auction and discussed in some forums i will show it here again and remember this older fine thread.

I think I can make out that "watermark" on the photo too... can you guys as well?

Especially interesting i find the sold with ring.
I myself can`t imagine that this inside comes while die strucking.
Would like to hear some other opinions.
Mabe Hapur can help with his knowledge.

Nobody here with an opinion?
Here the front of this ring, for me a cast one:

and a comparison with a period original:

Dragons teeth do look different I agree- lettering too. And the second helmet has no rivet/vent hole above the national shield. Good eye, G�tz.

It's gonna fool a lot of people!

Based on this pic I say cast ring.

That`s what i think too.
A mother die for die strucking sold together with a cast ring.
How strange is that?

Comparison of the backside:

here's an old die...this one of a good luck ring.. Horse shoe,,4 leaf clover, wish bone,,,just missing a Swastika!

A real work of art... Talented die cutter here!

another old one.. probably took some enamel in the shields afterwards.

here's the good luck ring die again..

We always talk about nice even band here. this is why.
They were cut that way!
One side wouldn't be thicker than the other. Everything nice and even.

Wonder what was going to be in the center of that cartouche?!

Maybe an unready die?
The cartouche looks looks rather high too, so could be it still needs some work on.

The details are amazing. The shanks are wishbones with a rabbits foot in the center...

maybe Odal,,or maybe just a big high gaudy ring..

Mike, your a genius!! Rabbits foot!!! YES, absolutely.. Cool, thats seldom seen on good luck pieces..

I had an email a while ago asking why some dies the Cartouche [front] were flat and some 'dipped'...

There were many dies as can be seen in this great old topic... This period die from my collection is 'dipped' .. It is simple,, it gets flat when it gets rounded, and sometimes finished flat as well...

got friendly with a salvage guy that occasionally gets and sells old European jewelry dies.. He sent me this,,says its from 40s. Could be French...
Takes a cameo or a 'gem' Its not for me as its not a mans ring etc. but still nice to observe and study:

I missed out on this die while I was out of town. . Supposed to be from late 30s.... , Oh well, next time.........................

I'm impressed by the craftsmanship !

Thanks for posting.

I got another old die last week. A unused working die.. Nice Art Deco ish design...

The 3 holes on the cartouche could be used for like some of our glass panel rings with emblem and the 2 screws from behind to affix, or maybe even to solder a panel on..

Seller calls me when ever he finds dies that are European or European made sent here. He had found a bunch of old [1950s] NOS working dies.. this was the only mans ring..

Serial numbered,,and depression [red] is for when in holding chock there was another holding screw/bolt.

- Most are in cardboard or wood boxes which he throws away after unpacking/inspecting ... I told him I'd give him a bit more from now on IF he saves the container!!!!

We have a local 'Gun Show' [really just military some flintlocks, bayos, reloading stuff, survival,,a bit of WWII,,oldies etc.] So I had met a guy that had a broken die to a old US coin!! He said it was fake and damaged from misuse etc. and somehow he got it.. I could tell it was old and asked if he had more. And,,,of course he had one I liked from 1950..

I told him I think it's illegal to have a piece that makes money [coinage]... He quickly took it out of his display case an put in his briefcase. ..

The other he told me a very fair [low] price for it and I got it! Pretty sure its a womans ring.. It's damaged but a little different than my other dies..
I have a section on dies in my project. I was showing 2 or 3 and some info.. - But then last year found great pages from a 1930s German trade booklet and just wanted to have a die for each of their line drawings, and understand their technique/workings etc.

Here it is.. Please,,you guys have a die for anything - a pin ,watch face, cufflink, anything! please I invite you to add the to this post.... Thanks..,G.

I've had this Ukraine pin a long time. It was for directly postwar when they did not want to be part of the USSR... [So far no ones been able to tell me what the bottom says/means]...

BUT,,, what do I find on an auction?? an actual working die for it!!

Description:

WWII FREEDOM FOR UKRAINE Steel Stamping Die FOR PINBACK * JN56
From the archives of the Johnson National Insignia Company of New York, this listing is for an original steel stamping die used to make a pin that reads FREEDOM FOR UKRAINE. The octagonal die has dimensions 1 ¼” x 1 ¼” and stands 1 ⅞” high. The die weighs 12 oz and the condition is Excellent.

Back to this for a moment- does anyone know what the part on the bottom means?

Mike,, I've asked our Ukrainian relatives, friends. Some of the old school .. No one really knows exactly!! The die is a standard worker. I have a few with this 6 sided configuration and was used here and around for years as it was easy to chuck up....


You guys have dies,,,any kind of die, info on dies etc. Please post away..... Thanks..,G.

I’ve seen Greek writing on the bottom of fraternity and fraternal organizations, what I’m wondering is if this might be related to an American Ukrainian (youth?) organization, association, or maybe church or scouting affiliated group.

Anyone with dies or even photos of dies, hardening, cutting techniques, repaired dies etc. please feel free to post them...

I'm glad you posted this considering current events...Jeez, the CIA has been sowing division between the slavs for decades. Russians and Ukrainians are practically the same people from my experience.

I'd really like to know the history behind this...

ASmith,, welcome to the forum... I didn't post it about anything concerning current events. The pin is old and I've asked a few places the what bottom meant. No one seems to know exactly.. Please nothing political here,,,forget the CIA ,sowing divisions etc..

- SO,, what do you collect?

Do you have any period rings or jewelry.? It's all welcome here,,advertisements, photos in wear, line drawings,bracelets, tie clips, cufflinks, boxes, military and even non military....

I believe even studying regular [non military] commercial jewelry will help us in learning too..

Thanks for the welcome!

Fair enough, I guess I'm one of those internet wackos who knows too much...

As far as what I collect, I've actually started collecting Third Reich postcards, but the Third Reich jewelry is something that I'm drawn to like a lot of people...I actually had a dream about an official SS bracelet one time, but I don't think there's any such thing?

Hello, ASmith,

Welcome to GDC. I don't know of any "official SS bracelet", but I am sure someone is working of one for you now . As soon as they age it to look about 1938-ish, they'll let you know

Dave

PS - We don't get into modern politics here.

Ah, what? If no such thing actually existed, I'm all set.

ASmith,

In this hobby you never rally know what to expect. Maybe they did make bracelets ... but maybe for just the Army guys.

Very nice, lol. I get it bracelets are feminine, jeez, it was a just a dream...it looked cool I swear, had a panther and skulls and stuff on it. You know, masculine things, lol.

- Theres plenty of what they call 'Patriotic' bracelets out there.. Usually a gift for the women folk... Most common was the WestWall but there were others. Try a search here a few might pop up..

Postcards!. There are some great books on postcards. Some of the early examples are very expensive and rare. Also on the easy side to conserve and keep/store..

Thanks, I'll take look. I actually didn't think to look, since I figured there wouldn't be many.



Yep, that's why I like them! I only have a few, but I definitely prefer the ones that weren't actually sent. Jewelry and the stuff that goes into making it like 'dies' is definitely more interesting as opposed to plain paper. I don't have anything as of yet obviously, but I brewing up some ideas about where I might start as I browse the forum.

Dave
Wow!! What a picture. Sheds a NEW light on what we are all collecting.
They may not be miniature daggers, they may be dainty daggers. Who knew??

I should have Police, not Army.

Found that photo a while back and just knew it would be useful some day.

well,, getting back to dies..

This is a US die... From the 1930s... The cartouche is U shaped on the die. But when on the rounding mandrel it will be flat!

So we have 19 on one side and 3 on the other. Depending on the year the final number I think would be cut on to the working die... Old and in good condition... These were usually stored in very heavy cardboard box or usually wood with the corresponding number on the outside of box..

Heres a nice die I missed getting recently.. I have a budget I spend on dies. [unless its something really special] This went over so some other lucky collector got it..

In great condition. WW1, showing the US Doughboy uniform. 100 years old! These dies were usually kept in wood boxes and often kept under lock and key in a special die room..
The shield on the cartouche was a popular design in WW1.. Notice the shield is curved. This is so when rounded it will become flat...

I had the chance to pick up 2 dies recently.. ALL 3 are working dies and all 3 are damaged..

They were wrapped in paper with other dies that said 1930 and had some numbers. Pretty sure they are from the US..

I think this one is damaged from over usage,,or improper materials in the 2 weak areas..

The first one:

this one too, I'd say over usage. This could have had enamel on the sides [?]


here's the 2nd one:

This one,,,,catastrophic damage!! When being pressed it either made a loud noise and when ram went up the broken piece just fell out. OR,,might have been a chance when this 'went' a big piece / chip went flying!

I like these for various reasons. I never pay more than 30 dollars or so for one of these. I try and buy only up to 1950s tops.... Once years ago I bought a WW die and that cost me,,but was glad to pay it!

anyway,,here is the 3rd..

Saw these 2 photos of a cracked working die.... I own several dies and its usually the plain dies that are cracked/damaged..

With this die once rounded you could put anything you wanted on the cartouche or even engrave it!.....

Dies like this are usually inexpensive because they aren't useful anymore.. Die even from the 1920s that are still in good condition will sometimes go for big money because the right person would still be able to make rings/jewelry off it!!