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Joined: Aug 2014
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Circle the wagons, boys. (An old west USA saying meaning keep the inner circle tight to fend off invaders!) someone asked me about best place to get a ring like I had (I don't recall some pattern skull or ww)-and my answer was the same Gaspare gave me-Buy from an Old established collection! Fake rings will always be fake rings!!!
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Also, the cracked shield die...I presume it's non functional in that state, I suppose they would just make a new die? Or did they have some imperfect ones, but have a method for fixing die flaws? It is not working die, it is master for making working die. Usually when die gets broken, it is just thrown away. Sometimes it can get fixed and then sometimes you can see some repair defect. Mostly therm die flaws are used to hide casting defects. Many gays use term die flaw but actually never has seen some die with flaws. If interested I can make some repaired die pics. Please do, Hapur, that would be HIGHLY interesting! And if you had a pic of a ring made with a repaired die, then that would be perfect...
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Because this 2 dies (the one for the Westwall ring and the one for a swastika ring) are now again in auction and discussed in some forums i will show it here again and remember this older fine thread.
Last edited by odal; 03/05/2017 07:06 PM.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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I think I can make out that "watermark" on the photo too... can you guys as well?
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Especially interesting i find the sold with ring. I myself can`t imagine that this inside comes while die strucking. Would like to hear some other opinions. Mabe Hapur can help with his knowledge. 
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Nobody here with an opinion?
Here the front of this ring, for me a cast one:
Last edited by odal; 03/07/2017 07:44 PM.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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and a comparison with a period original:
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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1 member likes this:
ASmith |
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Dragons teeth do look different I agree- lettering too. And the second helmet has no rivet/vent hole above the national shield. Good eye, G�tz.
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It's gonna fool a lot of people!
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Nobody here with an opinion?
Here the front of this ring, for me a cast one: Based on this pic I say cast ring.
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Nobody here with an opinion?
Here the front of this ring, for me a cast one: Based on this pic I say cast ring. That`s what i think too. A mother die for die strucking sold together with a cast ring. How strange is that?
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Comparison of the backside:
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322 |
here's an old die...this one of a good luck ring.. Horse shoe,,4 leaf clover, wish bone,,,just missing a Swastika!
A real work of art... Talented die cutter here!
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Joined: Jun 2002
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322 |
another old one.. probably took some enamel in the shields afterwards.
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
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here's the good luck ring die again..
We always talk about nice even band here. this is why.
They were cut that way!
One side wouldn't be thicker than the other. Everything nice and even.
Wonder what was going to be in the center of that cartouche?!
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/03/2017 06:04 AM.
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Maybe an unready die?
The cartouche looks looks rather high too, so could be it still needs some work on.
�Eine gewaltt�tige, herrische, unerschrockene, grausame Jugend will ich. Jugend muss das alles sein. Schmerzen muss sie ertragen. Es darf nichts Schwaches und Z�rtliches an ihr sein. Das freie, herrliche Raubtier muss wieder
aus ihren Augen blitzen."
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Joined: Aug 2014
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The details are amazing. The shanks are wishbones with a rabbits foot in the center...
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322 |
maybe Odal,,or maybe just a big high gaudy ring..
Mike, your a genius!! Rabbits foot!!! YES, absolutely.. Cool, thats seldom seen on good luck pieces..
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Joined: Jun 2002
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I had an email a while ago asking why some dies the Cartouche [front] were flat and some 'dipped'...
There were many dies as can be seen in this great old topic... This period die from my collection is 'dipped' .. It is simple,, it gets flat when it gets rounded, and sometimes finished flat as well...
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/24/2021 12:39 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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got friendly with a salvage guy that occasionally gets and sells old European jewelry dies.. He sent me this,,says its from 40s. Could be French...
Takes a cameo or a 'gem' Its not for me as its not a mans ring etc. but still nice to observe and study:
Last edited by Gaspare; 11/26/2021 06:00 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322 |
I missed out on this die while I was out of town.  . Supposed to be from late 30s.... , Oh well, next time.........................
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I'm impressed by the craftsmanship !
Thanks for posting.
Last edited by benten; 12/16/2021 02:24 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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I got another old die last week. A unused working die.. Nice Art Deco ish design... The 3 holes on the cartouche could be used for like some of our glass panel rings with emblem and the 2 screws from behind to affix, or maybe even to solder a panel on.. Seller calls me when ever he finds dies that are European or European made sent here. He had found a bunch of old [1950s] NOS working dies.. this was the only mans ring.. Serial numbered,,and depression [red] is for when in holding chock there was another holding screw/bolt. - Most are in cardboard or wood boxes which he throws away after unpacking/inspecting ... I told him I'd give him a bit more from now on IF he saves the container!!!!
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Joined: Jun 2002
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We have a local 'Gun Show' [really just military some flintlocks, bayos, reloading stuff, survival,,a bit of WWII,,oldies etc.] So I had met a guy that had a broken die to a old US coin!! He said it was fake and damaged from misuse etc. and somehow he got it.. I could tell it was old and asked if he had more. And,,,of course he had one I liked from 1950.. I told him I think it's illegal to have a piece that makes money [coinage]... He quickly took it out of his display case an put in his briefcase.    .. The other he told me a very fair [low] price for it and I got it! Pretty sure its a womans ring.. It's damaged but a little different than my other dies.. I have a section on dies in my project. I was showing 2 or 3 and some info.. - But then last year found great pages from a 1930s German trade booklet and just wanted to have a die for each of their line drawings, and understand their technique/workings etc. Here it is.. Please,,you guys have a die for anything - a pin ,watch face, cufflink, anything! please I invite you to add the to this post.... Thanks..,G.
Last edited by Gaspare; 03/12/2022 01:46 AM.
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I've had this Ukraine pin a long time. It was for directly postwar when they did not want to be part of the USSR... [So far no ones been able to tell me what the bottom says/means]...
BUT,,, what do I find on an auction?? an actual working die for it!!
Description:
WWII FREEDOM FOR UKRAINE Steel Stamping Die FOR PINBACK * JN56
From the archives of the Johnson National Insignia Company of New York, this listing is for an original steel stamping die used to make a pin that reads FREEDOM FOR UKRAINE. The octagonal die has dimensions 1 ¼” x 1 ¼” and stands 1 ⅞” high. The die weighs 12 oz and the condition is Excellent.
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/23/2022 01:36 PM.
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ASmith |
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Back to this for a moment- does anyone know what the part on the bottom means?
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322 |
Mike,, I've asked our Ukrainian relatives, friends. Some of the old school .. No one really knows exactly!! The die is a standard worker. I have a few with this 6 sided configuration and was used here and around for years as it was easy to chuck up....
You guys have dies,,,any kind of die, info on dies etc. Please post away..... Thanks..,G.
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/25/2022 02:02 PM.
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I’ve seen Greek writing on the bottom of fraternity and fraternal organizations, what I’m wondering is if this might be related to an American Ukrainian (youth?) organization, association, or maybe church or scouting affiliated group.
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Anyone with dies or even photos of dies, hardening, cutting techniques, repaired dies etc. please feel free to post them...
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/26/2022 02:49 AM.
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I'm glad you posted this considering current events...Jeez, the CIA has been sowing division between the slavs for decades. Russians and Ukrainians are practically the same people from my experience. I'd really like to know the history behind this...
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Evgeniy |
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ASmith,, welcome to the forum... I didn't post it about anything concerning current events. The pin is old and I've asked a few places the what bottom meant. No one seems to know exactly.. Please nothing political here,,,forget the CIA ,sowing divisions etc..
- SO,, what do you collect?
Do you have any period rings or jewelry.? It's all welcome here,,advertisements, photos in wear, line drawings,bracelets, tie clips, cufflinks, boxes, military and even non military....
I believe even studying regular [non military] commercial jewelry will help us in learning too..
Last edited by Gaspare; 07/26/2022 03:00 AM.
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ASmith |
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ASmith,, welcome to the forum... I didn't post it about anything concerning current events. The pin is old and I've asked a few places the what bottom meant. No one seems to know exactly.. Please nothing political here,,,forget the CIA ,sowing divisions etc..
- SO,, what do you collect?
Do you have any period rings or jewelry.? It's all welcome here,,advertisements, photos in wear, line drawings,bracelets, tie clips, cufflinks, boxes, military and even non military....
I believe even studying regular [non military] commercial jewelry will help us in learning too.. Thanks for the welcome! Fair enough, I guess I'm one of those internet wackos who knows too much... As far as what I collect, I've actually started collecting Third Reich postcards, but the Third Reich jewelry is something that I'm drawn to like a lot of people...I actually had a dream about an official SS bracelet one time, but I don't think there's any such thing?
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Hello, ASmith, Welcome to GDC. I don't know of any "official SS bracelet", but I am sure someone is working of one for you now . As soon as they age it to look about 1938-ish, they'll let you know Dave PS - We don't get into modern politics here.
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Hello, ASmith, Welcome to GDC. I don't know of any "official SS bracelet", but I am sure someone is working of one for you now . As soon as they age it to look about 1938-ish, they'll let you know Ah, what? If no such thing actually existed, I'm all set.
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Joined: Sep 2000
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ASmith, In this hobby you never rally know what to expect. Maybe they did make bracelets ... but maybe for just the Army guys. 
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ASmith |
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Very nice, lol. I get it bracelets are feminine, jeez, it was a just a dream...it looked cool I swear, had a panther and skulls and stuff on it. You know, masculine things, lol.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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OP
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,328 Likes: 322 |
- Theres plenty of what they call 'Patriotic' bracelets out there.. Usually a gift for the women folk... Most common was the WestWall but there were others. Try a search here a few might pop up..
Postcards!. There are some great books on postcards. Some of the early examples are very expensive and rare. Also on the easy side to conserve and keep/store..
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1 member likes this:
ASmith |
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- Theres plenty of what they call 'Patriotic' bracelets out there.. Usually a gift for the women folk... Most common was the WestWall but there were others. Try a search here a few might pop up.. Thanks, I'll take look. I actually didn't think to look, since I figured there wouldn't be many. Postcards...on the easy side to conserve and keep/store.. Yep, that's why I like them! I only have a few, but I definitely prefer the ones that weren't actually sent. Jewelry and the stuff that goes into making it like 'dies' is definitely more interesting as opposed to plain paper. I don't have anything as of yet obviously, but I brewing up some ideas about where I might start as I browse the forum. 
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Dave
Wow!! What a picture. Sheds a NEW light on what we are all collecting.
They may not be miniature daggers, they may be dainty daggers. Who knew??
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Joined: Sep 2000
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I should have Police, not Army. Found that photo a while back and just knew it would be useful some day.
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