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#308197 05/19/2015 10:22 PM
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Hi Gang,I have a question.Did WKC make an SS Dagger that was maker marked with the Knights head logo on the blade?I know they made an RZM 1053 SS Dagger.Thanks Dutchman. cool


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Dutchman #308203 05/19/2015 11:47 PM
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Do you own a copy of Tom Wittmann's SS book ?

WKC Mark.jpg (56.48 KB, 389 downloads)
Dave #308210 05/20/2015 09:50 AM
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I remember that is a scarce producer in the early period...but i may be worng smile

luca #308230 05/21/2015 09:31 AM
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Dave do you have further pics of this dagger?
Gerd

kreta1961 #308237 05/21/2015 03:25 PM
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The few that I have were taken about 15 years ago and show little other than the scabbard was probably repainted. I have not had it out of the safe deposit box for at least 10 years.

It isd in TW's SS book. A good story worth reading.

Dave #308262 05/23/2015 01:29 AM
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RZM 1196/38 appears as WKC in RZM form..according to Fishers..yet no documentation exists supporting WKC producing early SS daggers..except what Dave has as the sole point of reference concerning this producer. Interesting and thanks for the photo Dave !! smile Regards Larry


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Larry C #308266 05/23/2015 02:44 AM
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Fisher ? No proof ever offered as you say, Larry.

Has anyone read that bit in TW's SS book?

Dave #308281 05/23/2015 02:51 PM
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I find it rather unususal that the mark is different from the WKC marking on the early SA dagger (see hereunder).

Other makers did not mark their early blades differently for SS than for SA blades, except for the motto side of course.

If you ever get the chance to take & show more pictures, I would be interested to see them too, Dave.

Best regards,

Herman

B1.JPG (81.57 KB, 245 downloads)

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The complete blade:

A2.JPG (115.1 KB, 243 downloads)
A3.JPG (106.69 KB, 243 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 05/23/2015 02:53 PM.

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Herman,

Two SS makers did use a different trademark: ASSO and F. Herder.

The reason for the Trademark difference is explained in TW's SS book

Dave #308291 05/23/2015 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave
The few that I have were taken about 15 years ago and show little other than the scabbard was probably repainted. I have not had it out of the safe deposit box for at least 10 years.

It isd in TW's SS book. A good story worth reading.


Thx Dave!
I'll try to get a copy from one of my friends.

But to be honest i do not believe in a few ss dagger producers.
I'm not a godfather of these daggers,but also not new in this section.
A few sounds very strange to me and others,so i would love to see some good pics of Backhaus,Kober,Louper,Puma and WKC. Two years ago i saw two very nice Puma blades and one Backhaus offered by a UK dealer in Kassel. The blades were all well made,but the entire handles were real bad.If you marry a complete grip with one of these blades,you'll get a perfect and rare ss dagger.

Regards,
Gerd

kreta1961 #308297 05/23/2015 10:47 PM
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I bought all my daggers as complete daggers. And, there are excellent photos in TW's book.

Dave #308316 05/24/2015 10:06 PM
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An interesting read..which the WKC producer on my behalf had been an oversight. I Thankyou Dave for the reignited " Push " to pick up Toms Reference and take another Look into those SS rarities. Reading further in Toms Reference ...he points out that it was a possibility that these Ground Rohm daggers made their way to the WKC firm for regrinding, polishing and the WKC firm applied their own logo commonly seen on early SA daggers.

I have seen this regrinding process on a few other WKC SA daggers including my own shown below in the 2 photos. I could not get any closer to detail on the logo and the motto..as I no longer and painfully let go of this maker from my hands. The Logo itself the dagger pictured is not engraved but acid etched..including some pimpling in the motto. The etch on the Motto is very deep as seen on Early double Oval Eickhorn logo daggers.

I do have to agree with the details explained by Tom Wittman..that it would be a regrind and polished dagger. How it came to WKC is future reference to surface. I also agree that this is a product of Eickhorn as Tom suggests..and the firm WKC had not produced SS daggers..as does the Solingen Stadt Archives states ( from sub contractor invoices ) that Bertram Reinh never physically produced anything but assembled these desirable daggers that the fittings down to the etching process were all done outside.

I feel may other producers worked with each other as did EP&S and other larger firms..such as WKC with Eickhorn and who knows else. Thats the intrigue thats left for us to think..and holding onto what physical evidence that has surfaced to this day.

By the Way Gents in Tom Wittmanns SS reference it would be best to start from pgs 15-29..a very great read..and Daves WKC example being on pg 24. This is an interesting thread. smile Regards Larry

wkc3.JPG (109.67 KB, 289 downloads)
wkc6.JPG (112.66 KB, 287 downloads)
Last edited by Siegfried B; 05/24/2015 10:09 PM.

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Larry C #308317 05/24/2015 10:47 PM
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Aha! Larry cracks the code!

It is NOT a WKC dagger. As far as I know, WKC never made SS daggers. It is an Eickhorn ground Rohm dagger. The motto' distance down the blade and other characteristics confirm this.

TW and I used up a few Scotches figuring out what may have happened. We think that when Rohm became shot, there was a scramble to get his name removed from daggers. This particular one got sent to WKC. They took off the dedication, then engraved their trademark on the blade. Yes, the trademark is engraved, not acid etched.

Voila

Dave #308333 05/25/2015 06:29 PM
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Hi Larry,

What makes you believe that the SA WKC, which you show, was a Röhm before? The reverse spine of the blade appears nicely centered on the picture that you show.
To me, it looks like a twin blade to my SA WKC.

Best regards,

Herman

A4.JPG (109.7 KB, 244 downloads)
Last edited by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann); 05/25/2015 06:33 PM.

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Herman The motto' distance down the blade and other characteristics confirm this.


Regards Sean
seany #308339 05/25/2015 09:39 PM
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Hermann..the photos I posted do no justice to what I had explained in my post..that my WKC dagger has been very noticeably been regrained. As also as I confirmed that the dagger is no longer in my possession or I would of provided better pics upon question. Your WKC has superb minute graining compared to what I had. Regards Larry


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Larry C #308372 05/27/2015 09:09 PM
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Hi Larry,
from the provided pics,i can't see any difference between your and Herman's dagger.Also the motto position is similar on both daggers.
Dave,
i didn't meant your daggers! It was just an example.
Regards,
Gerd

kreta1961 #309334 07/03/2015 10:34 PM
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My dagger also has a benchmark "3" under the lower guard. Guards marked HE.

Dave #309417 07/05/2015 10:30 PM
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Here is the benchmark number. Note the enlarged grooves on the guard typical of Eickhorn.

The grip[ has a nice tiger stripe to it. Not often seen on SS daggers.

DSC00942.JPG (23.04 KB, 106 downloads)
DSC00938.JPG (112.45 KB, 105 downloads)

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