UBB.threads Forums General Interest Other Hobbies and Collections, like sports cars, movies, music,etc Tools of the Trade [?]

I started collecting Nazi regalia in the mid 1970s. After a few years I had all sorts of stuff,,helmets, daggers/bayos, medals/badges. A few jackets, a few hats and caps, a little bit of everything.
Some of the pieces I had from the many members of my family that were in the war,,their war booty,' war souvenirs'. Some bought, some traded. Things were different back then. IF you were collecting daggers and wanted a Army,you'd get the nicest one possible with the nicest of hangers. There was no collecting by maker, by handle color etc. Same with a medal,,You'd want a iron cross, you'd get the best condition one you could afford. Not by LDO number, maker stamp etc.

Anyway most my early collection was gone a few times, Motorcycles, women, 'substances',etc . In the mid 80s I decide to 'specialize' in the things I really liked. 3rd reich Jewelry, Foreign Volunteer items, Holocaust, ID tags/Worker IDs.
Well between Hurricane Irene and SuperStorm Sandy I lost 99% of my collection.

Well over the years I'd pick up a weird thing here, a weird thing there. I'd toss them in a crate in my attic. And of all my stuff they of course survived the waters up there.
This stuff one of my Uncles one time called 'Tools of the Trade'.. So here they are. Hope you guys enjoy the stuff,,most old, 1920s, 40s,60s..
I have more [I store them now in a old Violin case!] so heres a small taste..

The leather covered 'billy' has a ball bearing lanyard hole!

,,the straight razor was my grandfathers.. The come-a-long and spring cosh are Nazi and family bringbacks..

,,the 'straight' set of knuckles are my favorite style,,the black jack a real oldie,,probably 20s [froma old buddy in AZ .],,the stocky/stubby billy is a type of hardwood,,its like a rock yet has a split in it, hopefully not from a head!

I got about 10 knuckles made from all sorts of different materials. This one in photo I just got this past MAX and is my first real brass ones!
Got a bunch of the old blackjacks also. They are getting real hard to find. Hey, anyone with a line on any of this type stuff give me a shout and maybe we can work something out...,Thanks , G.

Great collection, G! Yeah, I'm seeing some shawshank redemption era stuff in here, nice! I love that it's stored in a violin case... touché!

This was hand painted on the top of some sort of box lid..
Love this!

Heck yeah! Looks like something one William Cutting (aka "Bill the Butcher") might have rolling around there in the back of his shop in 5 points! If it were Daniel day lewis, I see it holding something ironic like a cutaway bible with a pistol in it !!

What a great collection, some amazing items!

old catalog ads:

As a retired policeman I have collected many old tools of the trade myself over the years. These are mostly "working" nightsticks and billy clubs. Don't forget there were also fancy daysticks in the US made in coco-bolo or other exotic woods. These mostly had tassels to distinguish rank and are still used as presentation pieces in some departments today. No longer carried by most departments they have been replaced with other more modern batons and impact weapons made of synthetic materials. When I first started we could carry leather slappers and billies but no longer as time went on.

When it quits snowing I will take a couple of pix.

Man! that belt is something!! Whats on the star?
Oh yes please,,when you have the time any tools of the trade I'd love to see them!

Gaspare,

I have an intermission in the snow it seems so here are some photos.

A couple of fancy cherry wood day-sticks from the turn of the century. The thick stick with a gold tassel is from the Kansas City Mo. Police Department and is only some 20-30 years old. These sticks have the officer's name engraved on them. The glass billy has an interesting story behind it. These were made with hard candies in them and were sold to children. They seemingly were also used by policemen to carry a bit of liquor on their long nightly tours. Supposedly their Sergeants would feel, or see, the shape in the nightstick pockets on their pant legs and assume it was a regular billy club. Very clever these old cops.

I love the idea of a candy filled billy club, it's ironic but also probably helped teach kids that cops aren't here to beat you up, but rather to help protect the community. Good message in 2015.

Yep, the glass billy is a neat one that is very hard to find. The tear gas billy was patented in 1923. This is also a difficult one to find.

Here are a few more working clubs and another day stick to show the size differences. Notice the acorn carving on the butt of the large day stick with tassel. These balls were used as impact weapons. Drawn quickly from the belt the ball could be driven into the solar plexis to knock the air out of a miscreant. The unique woven stick has a lead ball at the end and there are a couple of other leather covered clubs to be seen.

Orpo,, thanks so much for showing all this,,what a treat..
Man that tear gas one!,excellent!
In the right hands any of these can do devastating damage to someone!

They made a single hand cuff,,that also could be turned into a 2 knuckle hitter [old]. Could have grabbed one a couple years ago. Could of, would of, really should of!! The piece sound familiar to anyone? maybe have one to show?

,,,,OH man!,,,just remembered I might have a photo of one on another drive... Found it!
So this is a knuckle hitter, and some sort of thumb cuff [?]

I have a extra that I put in the for sale section forum.,,thought I'd put the photos up here before I delete them..

This one is a very well made one. Pretty sure a 1960s example.. Strong black leather stitched well, the strap securely attached..
These are way better than a black jack.. With some practice you can learn to knock someone out very quickly with little effort! Used to hit on its side,,can easily break a bone.. Back in the old days some Police had a special side pocket in their pants for this tool..

,,,,,a quickie updated photo... Got to get a bigger/better display case!

Cool tools!

Vee have vays of making you talk!!!

ha ha you got it Mr F.!!

I have a new piece I picked up.. At the MAX of all places too! I've been wanting one of these a long time. Usually they are in such bad condition,,or will not function.. This near perfect. All the workings are fine and functions perfectly,,just missing some small bits of plaiting.

open,,,and closed [ouch!]... When closed,,with just a flick of your wrist the right way and anyone that has their wrist clamped will be on their knees!

guys,,maybe the ultimate 'tool of the trade'...

I guess after you beat the ******** out of the guy you can shoot him!

The centennial eh? Pretty intimidating - I wonder what it meant by centennial ? French Revolution? Second empire? Napoleon crowns himself / first empire?

man, here's another one..

With this thing there's no need for an enforcer to carry his knucks and a heater..

Plus maybe this thing has no rifleing [?] so it could be a little harder to trace/match..

All kidding [?] aside,,wonder what the value is on one of these things!

Hmmm that's a good question- maybe there's a small arms guy on the forum who has a good idea- we know Rick Harrison will give you 45 cents for it lol .,. Thanks for the closer picture it's the French Revolution/ American constitution centennial- both a big deal in France...g did u pick up this piece?

I wish Mike... I am sure this is a small fortune [a few thousand].!!
Anybody home here?!?,,does anyone maybe have one of these or could tell us a accurate value?

Saw one sold on a British auction site for 895 pounds, mint in the box with original ammo.

So somewhere in the $1200. to $1500. range.. Actually, not to bad! , Thanks Vern....

Glad to help

Here is an old nickeled .38 Colt Police revolver and restraint. The "nipper" is patent dated Aug. 10, 1869.

Also, a few early police whistles for your enjoyment.

Wow!,,Municipal Police of NY.! What would be the date on that?

Is the pistol an issue item?

Real nice nipper!

The whistles are from around the turn of the century... 19th Century that is. The S.A. French marked whistle is shown in his late 1800s catalog of police equipment.

The Colt revolver is not property marked but is probably a private purchase.

Nice collectables.

No doubt! G, do u have pics of those come-alongs u have? I think I recall u having a few and all very cool worth posting again with some history (I think many ppl don't know what they are!)

I do have some other restraints and come-alongs but I will have to look for the pictures.

In the meantime, here are some neat color police postcards from around the turn of the century. Some great shots of various US police uniforms and equipment from the late 1800s.

yeah! nice PCs!!..

I saw a old NYC police uniform. The pants has a 3 inch wide pocket, about 10 in long.. I asked what it was for??,,for a black jack!!

Here are a few shots of some old 1800s period restraints. Also, what display would be complete without a brass knuckle persuader?

A better shot of the nippers and patent date.

ORPO.,, WOW what a treat!

That leather holder for the come a longs is a first for me..

Some really nice stuff you got there,,thanks for posting!

Good subject. Houston Coates had some choice stuff like the cuffs and other police items at the Tn. Military Show last Thanksgiving. A really nice Kripo disc.
I bought a beautiful Japanese officer sword with original wooden scabbard, covered in leather for military use from Houston at the show.


Mark

Here's a couple tough customers.... Btw both are for sale or trade pm please if interested!

Mike,
,the tonfa wood?
,and the club a hard rubber?? What is the clubs length?

The tonfa is a monadnock p-24 s side handled baton, 24 inches in length... Made of a hard black molded plastic or rubber- about 3-3.5 lb I'd guess.., the club is a deep blue hard composite either a plastic or a rubber, with a black rubber washer- prob 4 lb or so, original leather carrying strap with it/ about 20 inches. These batons have seen real use!

Love this one- about 10 inches I'd guess... Nice old wooden tire thumper... Also posting for sale soon! Heavy, lead filled baton with original carrying strap.., prob about 3.5-4 lb at least. It's a shot caller that's for sure!!!

Oh man! Forgot to mention the come-alongs! Nice old set..

nice Mike!! Yeah that sure looks like it was drilled out, filled [prob with lead] and a wood plug in it...
You know I hear all the time,,'those are for fish' , 'Those are for tires'..
Tire and fish clubs usually a bit longer..
- any markings on the club or the come-a-long?

Markings? Well I'm not sure it's got something under the lacquer but I can't make it out- and like a North Star like pattern on the "pommel".., on the shaft is red and black markings maybe it was someone's name?

pretty sure the marks at the end is from the wood lathe chuck that held it..
That side peg is interesting. Does it go thru to other side?

Are the handles of the c-a-l aluminum or steel?

Yeah I couldn't get a good shot of the markings man regardless they were pretty worn.. Yep the other side has the "peg" as well- looks like same color material (wood putty?) as top and bottom,.,come a longs I will pull out and check I never really looked! Just thought they were cool and tossed them in the box lol!

wonder what the side plug is for?

The handle material will help you date them. IF aluminum they are most likely postwar.

No idea on the side plugs- maybe more weight added? It's heavy as heck. I looked at the come a longs I think it's steel or another metal- too heavy for aluminum- but maybe something else? Didn't see any clear markings but will look again!

try a magnet.........

Ahh of course! Yes will do-

had a forum member contact me out of the blue and ask if I'd be interested in a 'paperweight'!

Of course I was and we did a interesting trade for a 'Sapper Glove' and a beautiful old Aluminum knuckles:

they are a nice size and fit even my big hands!

Coming at ya!

Also,, from my collection but haven't shown until now..

These are steel knuckles. They were ground / pick up in Germany in 1946... Don't know if they are Allied or Axis.

little beat up, but they have character!
Nice knucks, good size and still can get the work done..

I received this piece in a trade..

Not sure of time period. It is only the right one. I've heard that sometimes only one was issued. This could be calfs skin or deers. Very soft, smooth, yet strong. Called a 'Sappers' glove. From what I can gather this is pretty old. Maybe WW1, or 20s,,or [?]
anyway, enjoy the photos.

Not sure what is sewn in to the knuckle area,,maybe lead powder, or steel filings.

This is not the thing you want to get hit in the face with!

Ain't that the truth! I would have guessed it for interrogation but I don't think that after a hit or two with this u can say much or are even conscious! Body shots would also be devestating- just as lethal in certain areas! Where did u find this G?

Byz.,,, A forum member noticed this topic and contacted me to see if I would be interested in the Glove and the Aluminum Knuckles!
A little cash, some trade items and we were both happy..

Hello,
Here's an item I picked up a number of years ago. The girl I got it from said it was her grandfather's who had been a policeman. Don't know anything about it other than that. I would think it's from the 30's or 40's but really have no idea. I also have a nightstick or two somewhere around here. The one item I wish I still had but it's been lost to the ages was a small black hard rubber truncheon which if I remember correctly had NYPD markings on it. I had gotten it from one of my Uncles years ago.
thanks for looking
Duzig(Bill)

Nice piece bill! Is it weighted (leaded/heavy?)

- yeah that's a really nice one! , and in good condition too..

What is the length on it?

Hello Byzanti and Gaspare,
It is weighted. Almost feels like the lower part of it is spring and the top is weighted. I paid five dollars for it a number of years ago. Yes it looks like it was never used. It is about 8 1/2 inches long. Am I correct in thinking that it might be from the 30's or 40's? Thanks again for your comments and info.
Bill

Gaspare knows more than me about these, we're just both avid "tools" enthusiasts- but being unused is totally possible, and the leather is in great condition for the age- sure 30s or 40s imo is definitely possible, they just stopped making and using them later, but later isn't unheard of.... that being said I've seen near mint pieces from the 20s that look almost like this, heck we were looking at a spiked prison baton from the 19th century U.K. Last week with engraving and everything, it was in great shape so I think that this could have easily stood up to some years these were built for endurance and strength they aren't going to fall to pieces just like that but then let's see what G says but I like it bill
Nice piece man

you know its weird,,,on ebay you can't sell knuckles,,,but' you can sell these!..
Bill,,that was a great price even back then.. You can pull up 'Vintage leather Blackjack' on eBay and you'd be surprised what these things can go for sometimes..

The style of these really haven't changed,,you'll see adverts! But,there is another completely different pattern. The flat version,,or 'Sap'..

Bill heres an old advert that shows some the same as yours. No date here but IF I remember right its from the 30s at least,,probably teens..

Here;s an old ad showing the flat and round together..

the flats are shown at the beginning of the topic too but figured I'd throw another on up..

I've seen some police uniforms that had a thin, narrow pocket made in to their pants either at the side of leg just right above the knee or one higher up by waist..

I spoke to a Policeman at the MAX . He said he was on a Texas police force and he was issued a flat one in the 60s! He said he loved it and it had hit many a elbow, shoulder, and head with his! It was a nice long, slim, flat one. I bought the story and the jack!

I was just checking.. Looking at the ad I posted last page one of the rubber jacks have imprinted on it 'Metropolitan Police'!

I checked and the adverts are from the late 1800s!

So really if the blackjacks we own have been kept in good condition we really don't know what year they were made/from! Their styling really hasn't changed in over 100 years!

[cool knucks,,on my most wanted list!]

Quite possibly the coolest set of knuckles I've ever seen- that's straight happy jack Mulraney gangs of New York right there dead to the year. Bet u those were issued the summer after the draft riots, and because of them!

Hello
Byzanti, thanks for your info. The girl I got if from was around my age so I figured her grandfather would have been around the same age and era as mine so the 30's or 40's does make sense. That spiked prison baton sounds interesting, and deadly. Any pictures of that piece? Gaspare, thanks for those pictures and info. Mine does indeed look like the one's you show. Guess I did pretty good paying 5.00 bucks for it maybe 20 years ago or so. With the way laws are today a policeman would be in deep trouble if he used one of these on a suspect I bet eh.
Very interesting items you guys have, I think I'm gonna start keeping my eyes out for more items like these. Thanks again for all your help and knowledge. It is appreciated!
Bill

I'll try to find those pix bill- and yes I do agree these are not standard issue today! The 19th century policing and fire fighting man that was rough work low pay (those things haven't really changed that much!) police and fire had to fight just to make it- not just the criminal element but other police depts and fire squads! NY had horrible overlap and mismanagement really just a mess of inefficient and ineffective systems by the mid 19th century- NY city cops fought the NY metro and borough police in all out brawls sometimes!! Fire squads were more like gangs in a lot of ways! generally speaking the police were used to just control the poor and working classes of the city- the idea of justice for the common man wasn't thru the police but maybe thru a gang or of course the mafia! Police work was for the tough guys who could handle the low pay etc- often newer immigrants that were kept out of other professions and opportunities! Andy militarynut also knows a lot abt ny policing too he identified an early leather police pistol belt slide that held maybe 20 bullets I think by just the contractors name! I think it was rosenblum but I forgot!

Byzanti,
Would love to see those pics & thanks again for that information. I have seen a couple of documentaries on the history channel about that era and as you say, the NY police were fighting other police etc. If my memory serves me correct I thought I heard on one of these shows that out of the gangs came the fire departments more or less. Interesting period in history for sure. Lots of interesting history in New York.
thanks again
Bill

was by my 'safe house'.. Had this case a long time and have had a bunch of different things in it...

I know your all expecting a Tommygun,,,but they are a little scarce here in NY!! These,,guess they have some uses

Nice meathook

Cool

While researching fighting rings, I stumbled across the "Apache" street gangs of Paris. During the Belle Époque (later 19th century) they used many "tools of the trade" (as pictured below) when ambushing their prey, the wealthy Parisians of the period.... a well to do man or woman would be well advised to carry a sword cane, a long/sharp hatpin, or perhaps a small and concealable pistol to defend themselves should they find one of these fellows in a back alley off of the boulevard... pronounced "Ah- PASH", these "Apaches" were so named after the antagonists of a James Fennimore Cooper novel of the period... they had impressive sets of combination gun/knives, brass knuckles, and of course some knuckledusters, which I will post in the ring forum. Here is a period poster advising the well to do of the gang members favorite tools of the trade (btw- if any one can find me this poster of the period... I will buy it!!) courtesy of englishhistoryauthors.blogspot.com, its entitled "How they Kill You" ...

Also for a bit of an eye opener- google "danse Apache" and see what comes up- this was a popular tandem dance inspired by the "Apache" of the Parisian back alleys...

Mike,,,that IS one cool poster.. I'd love one too,,bet they are super hard to find and expensive!

just saw a pretty cool old advert for a TOTT:

and this.. Don't know what to say about this,,other than,,,every guy should have one!

New definition of multi tool right there

Someone buggered up a valuable knife if that grip is real.

they look to new to be authentic....


Anyone reading,,, I'm looking for these type for my collection.. Anyone with that would want to move them send me a email...,G.

and of course would love to have these,,,and, the NYC type shown previously...