UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Postschutz Subordinate Dagger

Hi gents,

What is the general consensus on the so-called Postschutz Subordinate's dagger? The item I'm referring to is a shorter than normally seen blade with similar crossguard, grip & pommel & single scabbard hanger ring as opposed to the chain hanging assembly typically seen on Postschutz daggers.

I know at least one old time member here has one, probably more, but I was wondering if these items are accepted as legit period variants, modern fantasy pieces or something else. Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, there are collectors who do believe in them. And a few reference books are showing them. But there is no dokumentation about them in any way. There do even exist wearing pics of the now nearly unknown 1st Mod. Postschutz leader�s dagger (which is as long as the 2nd Mod.) but not the least evidence of a NCO or men�s model.
NCOs and men did wear the bayonet (with the special portepee) as periood wearing pics do proof.
Regards,

Thank Wotan,

I did know about but neglected to mention about the Postschutz KS98 with knot. I've seen pics of the alleged Subordinate's dagger but was always curious about whether they were considered legit period items.

Would consider them in a category with the Fat Man RAD hewer or all black Marine SA dagger?

These DID exist and were a school Postschutz issue dagger BEFORE the Postschutz Dagger Officer existed. MANY of the ones I have looked at at shows over the years were cobbled together DLV/KSFK pieces with a fake or officer crossguard and not an original school piece IMO.
Photos of the school Postschutz in wear at a Postschutz School DO exist and the photos I have seen were from 1937 over a year before the 1938 Officer Postschutz was ever issued.

Ron, I always appreciate your experienced knowledge what you gained over decades in the hobby and business, but in this case I have strongly to disagree
You do refer to a pic which I have bought VERY expensive. Unfortunately (or fortunately for me, otherwise I would not have known it) it was shown -with cut edges- in the net. It was mentioned, that this photograph was found loose (!) in an album of a Postschutz member who (also?) has attended a Postschutz school.
From this time on this certain photograph is often shown by internet hunters who download others pics and show them as they would be their own or other downloaders.
There is a dedication on the reverse of the photograph and a concrete date. This dedication was not shown in the net and I also will not show it.
It is clear, that the dagger shown in this pic IS NOT A SCHOOL DAGGER. It is simply a 1st model leader�s dagger (without chain but a hanger which resembles the 1st Mod RLB leader�s dagger) and the man wearing it is a POSTSCHUTZ leader.
BTW I do own other pics werein this certain 1st model dagger is worn and (also) without ANY RELATION to a Postschutz SCHOOL.
Please stop this clear misinformation about a "Postschutz schools dagger".
Regards,
Regards,

For me the Postschutz "Subordinate Dagger" is a clear phantasy piece cobbled together as Ron does describe.
Regards,

For me, the Postschutz Subordinate dagger, is really not a 'subordinate', but a early, very limited leader example, which very little is known about, until one come across one in the woodwork.
Here is a interesting thread on WAf a few years ago, missing some photos now but still informative.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337489&highlight=postal+dagger

Also, Vern has one in his collection. Perhaps he can chime in with a post. eh ?

Pictures?

I'll have to dig it out, but here is an old photo of the short model with a regular Postal Leader dagger.

Serge,

Many thanks for posting the WAF link, I do remember that thread so many my memory isn't as bad as I thought.


Vern,

Thanks for posting that picture, it's a great comparison shot! Is the consensus that the so-called Subordinate's dagger had a distinct pommel from the Postschutz dagger we all know?

Billy, These have been found in the woodwork. Obviously not by many. The shorty, is a quality All Nickel example, even the grip eagle. Every part is unique, except for the cross guard, and perhaps (I can't recall now) upper scabbard fitting, but not the throat, compared to the LATER chained model.
The very few surviving examples have been found with either a painted grip, or black leather covered.

Serge

...."found in the woodwork"..... must have been At-wood�s work
Sorry, I could not resist.

Regards,

in the photo, an officer with a full-size dirk of type 1 of the postal guard on a leather suspension.

Conclusion: there were 2 types of full-size daggers of the postal service (of the same length). 1 type on a leather suspension and 2 types on a chain. The little dagger is fiction or fantasy