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#29690 10/23/2009 07:01 PM
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xilly Offline OP
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Allow me to briefly present myself.
I'm 40 years old, French (no one is perfect :-) ) and I'm living in New York

I love vintage items in general, I already have two 18th painting, a 19th century jewelery china box, a 19th century "japonization" painting (roughly a Japanese theme but paint by a European artist) and a 19th century Chinese dress box)

As you can see I like item that are charged with History.

I always wanted a Katana, not because it's a weapon, I'm not a fan of weapon in general but because it represent, at least for me, Japan and Samurai.

I read some forum about buying a Katana, and a lot of complain was about "vintage swords" on ebay that were fake or copy.

However I find this Katana that is in my budget, but I don't know if it worth the price. I don't want to have the best discount price but just to be sure that I'm paying the correct one.

A very close Art dealer that appear to be one of my best friend, always tell me that that when, you want to buy a vintage object, price is not the most important thing, the most important is that you love it.

tx for your help

This is the Katana: http://cgi.ebay.com/SIGNED-Ant...=item4a9adaf76a#shId

What I like it the overall shape, the maker is Kanemitsu and it's in the Muromachi period

william

#29691 10/23/2009 10:26 PM
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xilly,

I am sorry that I have no concrete information for you concerning this sword beyond my elementary observations relative to the blade. I see several serious blade defects and the overall condition of the blade to include the poor or absence of the (water line(?)) doesn't appeal to myself at all. It seems to myself that you may be buying the story and not the quality of the item.

However, there are several on this forum who are quite versed and expert in this area.

You sound as a very astute and sincerely interested buyer. However, I question your thoughts of buying such a sword via e-bay and from an unknown person so far away. I wonder if you wouldn't serve your desires and needs more effectively by contacting one of the Japanese sword experts and dealers here in the United States.

Myself, I would feel much more comfortable buying from a local dealer than from one so out of reach.

In addition, if the sword is not to your satisfaction or if the deal would go bad, can you imagine the anguish and brain damage that could ensue not to mention any adverse monetary consequences?

Incidentally, there are several experts with many offerings at the two large U.S. shows, i.e. the SOS show in Lousiville,KY and the MAX show in Pittsburgh,PA.

Just my thoughts and opinion.

Good luck and best regards ,

John

#29692 10/24/2009 12:49 AM
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William,

I echo John's thoughts on this sword. The blade has fatal flaws and is in poor polish from what I can see in the pictures. You can find a much better sword for this amount of money. The value in old swords of this type is in the blade and the blade is not good. I would not buy it for this price. I would look for a reputable dealer who would give you a guarantee of satisfaction if I were you.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
#29693 10/24/2009 03:03 AM
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Hello William,

The blade does have a significant number of flaws. I suggest you spend some time viewing the sites linked below till you get a feel for value relative to condition. There are as many good swords (of the type you seem to want) available in your own country as anywhere else.

I've dealt with, or have knowledge of, the following fellows and recommend them as better sources of authentic quality pieces.

Bill Rannow... http://www.artswords.com/

Moses Becarra... http://www.nihontoantiques.com/index.htm

Bob Benson... http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/

Fred Weissberg... http://www.nihonto.com/

Kind regards,
Stu

#29694 10/24/2009 03:10 AM
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Further to my last...

William, you mentioned you were from France but living in the US. To be clear, I meant the USA when I said swords could be found in your own country.

Regards,
Stu

#29695 10/25/2009 04:33 AM
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I concur that this blade has a number of kizu or flaws. These appear to not be something that can be corrected with polish. I would suggest saving your money and buying a papered and polished blade from a reliable source in lieu of buying a piece like this that has no upside to it.
Bob


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#29696 10/26/2009 12:11 AM
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You are lucky to live in the USA where there is no shortage of nice japanese swords in price range of this one, buying one from an American scource will avoid all the problems associated with customs etc, plus the ease of returning the piece should you be unsatisfied.
Over here in GB there are not so many dealers and nice pieces are expensive, UK collectors are in a catch 22 situation, you either buy from home and pay top dollar or buy from Japan or the states and have to go through the customs rigmarole, If I was you I would certainly look at those sites recommended above especially Nihonto antiques.

Good luck

Nolan


Guns Mr Nolan, I see no Guns!
#29697 10/26/2009 03:14 PM
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Tx everyone for yours advices. I really appreciate (and it was fast)

I will look to buy from an american source and not ebay or other auction sites.

I'll keep you updated of what I found :-)

tx

william

#29698 10/26/2009 03:21 PM
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special thanks to
quote:
Stu W

I'm currently looking at the sites

#29699 10/27/2009 06:37 PM
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Hello all,

I think I find the good one and the price is definitively in my range: http://www.nihontoantiques.com/fss284.htm

What do you think?

#29700 10/27/2009 08:03 PM
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YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR WITH MOSES. HE IS A GOOD GUY AND VERY HONEST. THIS IS A FAR BETTER CHOICE THAN SOME POOR PIECE OF JUNK OF EBAY WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY DISAPPOINT.


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#29701 10/27/2009 10:53 PM
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,,nice functional artwork.


In Memory of Joe Mann
Medal of Honor Recipient
July 8, 1922 �
September 19, 1944



#29702 10/28/2009 12:15 AM
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Hello xilly,

That's a much better piece you are now considering. I'm sure you would be proud to have that in your collection. The fact it's on sale is a bonus.

Regards,
Stu

#29703 10/28/2009 01:36 PM
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Tx guys,

Do you think I should buy a Katana with a NTHK papers only?

#29704 10/28/2009 02:07 PM
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THE MAIN ORGANIZATIONS ISSUING CERTIFICATION ARE THE NIHON TOKEN BIJITSU HOZON KYOKAI(NBTHK)WHO ALSO MAINTAIN A SWORD MUSEUM IN TOKYO AND THE NIHON TOKEN HOZON KAI(NTHK). FOLLOWING THE DEATH OF THE ELDER YOSHIKAWA KENTARO, THIS GROUP SPLIT IN TO TWO FACTIONS, BOTH ISSUING CERTIFICATION. THEMAINLINE PART OF THIS GROUP IS HEADED BY YOSHIKAWA SENSEI'S SON IICHI. I WOULD ONLY CONSIDER A CERTIFICATE ISSUED BY HIS FACTION OR THE NBTHK. MOST DEALERS IN JAPAN SELLING SWORDS WITH A CERTIFICATE USUALLY OFFER THE NBTHK PAPER. I HAVE HAD MANY BLADES LOOKED AT BY BOTH GROUPS.
BOB


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#29705 10/28/2009 02:27 PM
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Tx Bob,

what's worried me is that the Katana I like has no "certification" at all

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/fss284.htm

Is that a significant issue or if I like it (and I do) it does not really matter

#29706 10/28/2009 05:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by xilly:
Tx Bob,

what's worried me is that the Katana I like has no "certification" at all

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/fss284.htm

AS THE BLADE IS UNSIGNED, IT IS WHAT IT IS. YOU COULD SUBMIT THIS BLADE FOR A PAPER TWENTY TIMES AND COME BACK WITH TWENTY DIFFERENT ANSWERS. IN THIS CASE, YOU AT LEAST HAVE SOME IDEA OF SCHOOL AND ERA BY THE SHAPE AND CONSTRUCTION.
BOB

Is that a significant issue or if I like it (and I do) it does not really matter


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#29707 10/28/2009 06:02 PM
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I have a very interesting conversation with Moses Becerra from nihonto

Hello Mr. Guillouard,

Well I think that if your looking for one good sword for your collection it should be in new polish with mounts and papers and with little to no flaws, in other words "no problems". I think realistically $6500-$12000 is the price for a good katana.

Variables will be:

length under 27" lower priced, over 27" higher at around 29" even higher.

If the sword has papers but is unsigned on lower end. If signed higher priced with a date even higher.

Average mounts lower end, very fine mounts higher priced.

If 500 years old higher priced if 200 years old less.

I think 6500-12000 is the price under these variables, and this is for a good quality smith not a famous smith. If a famous smith the price will easily be over 20,000.

Hopefully this will help you a little. All these variables have to be considered when buying a sword, or for me when pricing a sword on my site. I feel that the asking prices on my site are fare and based also on the current financial market. If you look at many sites you will find that my site sells swords regularly and constantly.

Many people ask me to sell there swords but I turn down over 90% because I don't think the prices they want are realistic with this market. Plus, if a receive a reasonable offer I will try to get the owner to agree to the sale.

Sorry for the long email, but its a little complicated to place a realistic number on a sword.

So to conclude again I feel $6500.00 to $12000.00 is a realistic price if you want to buy a good sword. Also remember, if the price looks too good, there may be a problem. So be careful and only buy from a recommendable person. For that you have to do some research.

Best regards,
Moses Becerra

PS: if you want to share this email in the Nihonto chat group or groups feel free. It maybe helpful to others. MB

#29708 10/28/2009 06:14 PM
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I BELIEVE MOSES HAS GIVEN YOU ACCURATE ADVICE AND INFORMATION. ONLY YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WISH TO BUY AND HOW MUCH YOU WISH TO PAY.
BOB


"A man needs to know his limitations" Dirty Harry
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#29709 10/28/2009 07:17 PM
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yep I'm negociating with my wife :-)

But my feeling is that for a first Katana, this is may be good start: http://www.nihontoantiques.com/fss284.htm

#29710 10/29/2009 09:13 PM
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ok guys I'm trying something Eek

http://www.nihontoantiques.com...ges/Blade%20(59).jpg

The HAMON is SUGI and the HATARAKI is CHIKEI??

I'm also considering this Katana: http://www.nihonto.com/8.9.01.html

I send a mail to ask if it has a Tsuka, Tsuba and Koshirae

My analyse is that this Katana has the NBTHK paper only because the owner thought it was a Go Yoshihiro blade. Otherwise it does not make any sense for a 4200$ blade. I really like the NOTARE HAMON on this one but ig I have to buy the Tsuka, Tsuba and Koshirae ut's definitively too expensive.

William

#29711 10/30/2009 12:55 AM
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the 2nd blade you posted has no mountings and is in an old storage scabbard. It is evident from the construction and shape that the blade was not one from Go Yoshihiro. If you want a sword with mounts, the Uda blade is not what you are looking for. Fred is correct in the statement that the fresh polish and paper are about equal in cost to the asking price. Having a mounting made would cost thousands and would not be worth the investment.


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#29712 10/30/2009 01:13 PM
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Tx Bob,

I'm buying the first blade!
keep you posted


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