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Joined: Jan 2009
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Dave,

I,ve seen these photos somewhere before, maybe on another forum,

my thoughts on these plain scout type knifes with no insignia & the knifes with the hj insignia added is they were common knifes sold to the masses for the use of hunting, fishing, camping ect, ect then someone decided to call them DJ Knifes, BDM knifes ,ect,ect & hump them up & advertise them for sale to make big money, True or False ?

Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted By: Mac 66
Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
That could be interesting if it were true. Dates of manufacture are unknown at this point.


...

Would carbon dating the steel blade on a DJ give a rough date to when the blade was made, griplates or leather scabbard hanger maybe ?


... we've tried this with 1800 German Naval daggers. One of the leading scientist in Germany and our co-author in the Near East sword book -Prof. Foell - informed us that there is a dating gap about a few 50yrs and the price would be very high, even if possible.
Best;
Hermann

Last edited by Flyingdutchman; 11/15/2013 06:26 PM.
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[quote=Flyingdutchman]

... we've tried this with 1800 German Naval daggers. One of the leading scientist in Germany and our co-author in the Near East sword book -Prof. Foell - informed us that there is a dating gap about a few 50yrs and the price would be very high, even if possible.
Best;
Hermann




Hermann,


Thanks for this info, it was just a thought that came to my head on carbon dating, i hope the word has spread all the way through the collecting community now that these DJ knifes were never used or issued to the DJ members & that most people now recognise them as a humped up knife with added Hj diamond on the scabbard made to deceive collectors, i,ve also noticed you do not see very many of these DJ Knifes for sale on dealers websites now, wonder why !

if anyone here who believes in these DJ knifes has something positive to say about them being a TR period made knife for DJ use lets hear it ?




Regards Mac 66.

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As it regards the dates of manufacture, fakers routinely “dated” modern copies of RZM daggers, knives (and some sword fakes). And it’s my belief that manufacturing has proceeded from possibly some leftover pre-zinc TR era ordinary camping knives. But much more likely they are all postwar for the serviceman and others who wanted something to take home when their tour of duty was over. And if you look at what is for sale as we speak, on some dealer websites they were or are still making them well into later modern times. And while I could post some more of the recent “discoveries” now for sale - the knife I posted earlier should I think suffice as proof of postwar manufacture. A complete postwar fake - as are the others in circulation with maybe a few years difference as to when they were made in batches.

I also have some of the information on the (true) Damascus “watered steel” types of blades and the analysis done there to try and figure out how and when they were made. But more appropriate IMO was a metallurgical analysis of some period political blades that was done a while back for a now extinct forum.

But let me “cut to the chase”: It was said once of a notorious California homicide. That if the perpetrator had been filmed committing the acts, he would have still been found not guilty because the jury was going to overlook any and all of the evidence. And by completely avoiding becoming involved in any of the discussions of these “small knives” - dealers will still find customers to buy them who “want to believe" that they are genuine TR artifacts. And that is not even taking taking into account all of the guys who’ve already been scammed (IMO) in the past - and now have an investment to protect. Fred

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
It was said once of a notorious California homicide. That if the perpetrator had been filmed committing the acts, he would have still been found not guilty because the jury was going to overlook any and all of the evidence. And by completely avoiding becoming involved in any of the discussions of these “small knives” - dealers will still find customers to buy them who “want to believe" that they are genuine TR artifacts. And that is not even taking taking into account all of the guys who’ve already been scammed (IMO) in the past - and now have an investment to protect. Fred


Indeed. The scammers won't talk and instead leave it up to the desperate owners of such pieces to fight their corner. Dealers quote other dealers in order to legitimise the continued sale of the "DJ" knife and desperate scorn is heaped on those who have the evidence to show that the knife is a humped up fantasy. A ridiculous state of affairs but the times are changing. Common sense and a reliance on history and primary literature are making a long overdue appearance. Some are already finding discussion platforms to be ever more scary places and that's great to see.

Last edited by Nork; 11/17/2013 02:41 PM.
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i Think that the DJ knife was sold at the various souvenir shops all around germany who sold nazi party sovenires. im i wrong? and its never been a regular dj knife, just Another nazi souvenire knife

Last edited by Fredrik; 11/23/2013 07:12 PM.
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I agree with Mac and everyone else that it's a humped up souvenir or "utility" hiking knife.
There is no period catalog/reference that shows the "smaller knife" as an issue/sale item for use by the DJ organization.
The paper bag in itself proves nothing.
It is the standard factory bag for an HJ (or DJ) knife, which were one-and-the-same model for both boy-groups.

But I don't really have a bone in the fight as I prefer the ones that read "Blut und Ehre!" smile

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