#28783
08/08/2009 11:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
I know this picture is bad , emailed for more, does this look ok so far? Its a Paul Weyersberg?The crossgard is a main concern ,thought the eagle and swaz looked questionable, matter of fact I thought I saw the funny looking beak before. then also the maker is in question.T
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#28784
08/09/2009 02:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22 |
Tiep, GD's dagger reference gallery says these were made exclusively by Eickhorn. TJ's volume VIII mentions Johnson's purchase of an original Weyersberg Bahnschutz1 by Weyersberg so anything's possible. This one might be a mix of parts, I'd proceed with extreme caution http://www.germandaggers.com/D...Guide/RailwayWPP.htm
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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#28785
08/09/2009 02:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Tiep:
Top echo Billy, be very careful. Even if it seems to be 100%, a non accepted maker will give you headaches and great difficulty if at some point you decide to unload this piece.
Over the years, only a couple of these have been accepted as real.
There is one that most people agree is a real one on Craig's site in his gallery. I think that Paul Hogle also has one pictured on his site in his gallery. They are both Eickhorns.
Remember, that even when produced by Eickhorn and pictured in their catalogue, this items really was a parts piece. It was created out of other dagger parts with only a couple of unique features, like the scabbard bands.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#28786
08/09/2009 03:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
JOHNSONS BOOK DOES SHOW A CLEMEN AND JUNG???!!!***Looks very questionable with that funny looking bird, not very distingquished. Its at $1050 now and a couple weeks to go. Whoa!
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#28787
08/09/2009 05:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Tiep:
I think that tens of thousands is what a real one would go for. If you can even find one.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#28788
08/09/2009 11:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 249
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 249 |
Note that Weyersberg also did make Bahnschutz-Leader-daggers.! It`s possible that they also manufacture that model.
Medes
as Tom Johnson use to say: "...the story is really theirs to tell" now we will do...
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#28789
08/09/2009 01:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,126 Likes: 22 |
quote: Originally posted by Billy G.:
TJ's volume VIII mentions Johnson's purchase of an original Weyersberg Bahnschutz1 by Weyersberg so anything's possible.
I thought I said that Tiep, The price is certainly telling, even if you knew nothing else about this particular dagger. As JohnZ says, an original, if you could even find one, would run in the tens of thousands of dollars. Someone selling an allegedly original example of an extremely rare dagger at a fraction of it's value should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism IMO.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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#28790
08/09/2009 05:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945 |
I've only seen one of these daggers .It was Bob McCarthy's .Looking in TJ Vol.1 the crossguard looks to have more of a down sweep to it like the 2nd R.R..This looks like an Army.JMO
You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time
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#28791
08/09/2009 06:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023 Likes: 1 |
This is perhaps the rarest production dagger made. One needs to do a lot of research before making the leap. The most accepted one is the silver washed Eickhorn. I know that gold versions are out there and examples by other makers but they are shrouded in controversy. IMHO if you are prepared to collect at this level buy a silver Eickhorn. It may take a year or more for one to come to market and when one does it does not ever make it to a dealer site.
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#28792
08/09/2009 07:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
Im sure its fake . I know I saw that crappy looking eagle before.Just wanted some input. T
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#28793
08/09/2009 08:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
In my 50 plus years in this hobby I have only seen two real RWPP. The one McCarthy had and one that C. Gottleib found out of the sticks a few years ago (not in the greatest condition) and those are the only ones. Ron Weinand
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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#28794
08/09/2009 08:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,369
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,369 |
Ron,
That statement can be taken wrong. I know i bought mine over 15 years ago from Tim W.
Are you stating that he and other dealers are selling fakes?
I hope that isn't what your accusing them of doing?
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#28795
08/09/2009 09:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
Take it how ever you want Bob, but since I didn't see it, I can't say it was good or bad. I'm only talking about those that I have seen and the only good ones were both Eickhorns. Also, if you study the Eickhorn catalog picture, you will find that the crossguard on the one pictured there is not your average Army Eickhorn crossguard and both of the ones I am talking about had the same crossguard as the one in the catalog. JMO, Ron Weinand
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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#28796
08/09/2009 09:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
OK what the heck, whats a fake worth?
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#28797
08/10/2009 10:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023 Likes: 1
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023 Likes: 1 |
The folks here are only sharing what knowledge is available out there on these. I don't think I would be out of place to say that NO ONE is an expert on these. Shoot if Ron's only ever seen two I would venture to say that few have ever seen one real example!!!! We are all here to learn. Bob why not share what you have?
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#28798
08/20/2009 10:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
heres some extra pictures they sent
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#28799
08/20/2009 10:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
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#28800
08/20/2009 10:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
uuu So is it fake probably, whats it worth ?
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#28801
08/20/2009 10:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
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#28802
08/21/2009 12:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,229 Likes: 1 |
I like it but I would not pay a lot for it. I think the cross guard is generic. Those with a maker other than Eickhorn? A very hard sell.
MAX & OVMS Life Member, MAX Bd. of Experts. GDC Platinum Dealer. Collector since 1955.
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#28803
08/21/2009 12:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
The good thing is if its deemed a fake or repro its refundable...wow...Im getting itchy on this .
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#28804
08/21/2009 01:12 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881 |
I cant comment on the dagger itself but I am not overly keen on that trademark.
wb.jpg (105.9 KB, 772 downloads)
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#28805
08/21/2009 02:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
Bowmans book, although deemed toilet paper at this site stated that Weyersberg blades were on the German repro dags.T
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#28806
08/21/2009 02:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475
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OP
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,475 |
Degens, thanks for the comparison, big differences thats for sure.
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#28807
08/21/2009 03:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5 |
quote: Bowmans book, although deemed toilet paper
Your RIGHT it is... Regards: James
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#28808
08/25/2009 04:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072 |
Like Ron, I've only see those two silver originals that Ron has spoken about - mine, and Bob McCarthy's. I also handled (and sold) the single example by Eickhorn in Gold that was real in my view. This very dagger originated the notion that they were also made in Gold. The gold example was, I believe, a prototype that was never issued. As an aside, most people don't even know what these daggers were for, but here's the scoop . . .
The dagger was worn by a small contingent of police who served a very small barge-service that shuttled railroad cars from Germany to Denmark. Why they got their own dagger is a mystery that we may never know. My guess is that the contingent was scheduled to expand, but never did.
If you ever come across an example you want to "vet" just unscrew the pommel. You'll likely find a yellow-colored lacqueur on the light weight pommel.
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#28809
08/26/2009 07:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 878
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 878 |
hi any chance of pics of the one you own. gov daggers by eickhorn are numbered on all parts,could these wpp possibly be numbered as they seem to be a limited edition. thanks dippy
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#28810
08/27/2009 03:52 AM
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072 |
No, the two that I owned were NOT numbered internally.
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#28811
09/09/2009 05:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122 |
I just picked up what I believe to be a visor cap for the DRB-WSP. (Mine is an EM/NCO with the leather strap). Does anyone have any pics of Railway Water Protection Police EM/NCO's or Officers and/or regulations regarding the same?
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#28812
09/16/2009 01:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122 |
No one has any regs/info/pics of the Reichsbahn Wasserschutzpolizei? In any event, here is an NCO visor for the organisation:
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#28813
09/18/2009 04:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122 |
Guys, there must be somethng more referencing this organisation other than the Eickhorn Kundendiest....
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#28814
09/19/2009 02:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 794 Likes: 2
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 794 Likes: 2 |
Look here:
Ordnungspolizei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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#28815
09/20/2009 06:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 122 |
quote: Originally posted by Notaguru: Look here:
Ordnungspolizei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Thanks, Guru. I am aware of the WSP and the BzP, but I am looking for specific pictures and wartime mention/regs of the Reichsbahnwasserschutzpolizei. Aside from a token mention in the Eickhorn Kundendienst, there is absolutely nothing (as of right now) on this elusive organisation....
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#28816
10/06/2009 03:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072 |
The organization operated between Germany and Denmark, as a police outfit guarding railway barges/ferries. I do not currently have the reference here, but did find it once in my research. Incidentally, I purchased one of thest at this year's MAX: http://www.craiggottlieb.com/d...r=German%20MilitariaAs it was purchased Saturday afternoon, I only had time to share it with a couple of collectors, and Ron Weinand, who knows these daggers as well if not better than I do. This example was of very early production, due to the heavy silvered fittings. Note the frosting to the areas surrounding the suspension bands, and under the ferrule - a beautiful "together forever" statement. http://www.craiggottlieb.com/d...r=German%20Militaria
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#28817
10/06/2009 05:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958 Likes: 29
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958 Likes: 29 |
Now that is an outstanding and unquestionably good dagger that should generate no controversy...congrats on an outstanding aquisition and purchase Craig! cheers, Ryan
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#28818
10/08/2009 01:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,072 |
You underestimate my ability generate controversy Just kidding. What I like best about it is the lacqueur that surrounds the scabbard fittings.
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#28819
10/08/2009 03:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Craig:
A good source once told me that it was the unmessed lacquer to look for in the real ones. If someone were to try to force these special scabbard bands onto an army scabbard, they would screw up the lacquer/finish.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#28820
10/08/2009 03:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
BTW, Craig, do you recognize my avatar?
I got this from you a couple of years ago.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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#28821
10/08/2009 04:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
This Rail is MUCH MORE impressive in person. What a find! Ron Weinand
MAX CHARTER MEMBER
LIFE MEMBER OVMS
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#28822
11/01/2009 01:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084 Likes: 96
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,084 Likes: 96 |
I have removed a couple of posts by a gent selling goods from the Middle East.
Dave
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