Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
A recent acquisition an early J.A. Henckels Slant grip army. While the blade is extremely spotty fortunately it is full length and has no pitting or rust issues some crossgrain remains under the smudged surfaces. Fortunately the rest of the dagger is very nice. The crossguard is superb the hand work is some of the best you will see on any army of the period. The breast has the punched triangular pattern - really a great look and no doubt tediously applied by a skilled craftsman one triangle/punch at a time. The pommel is interesting as it has little circular acorns punched around the circumference separating the leaves. I have a good friend (VB) who has a beautiful Henckels if you compare the hand work they are identical the three hand accents to the head the triangle breast pattern even the style and thickness of the hand work that mimics the feather pattern of the wings as well as the little circular acorns punched into the pommel between the leaves. The grip ferrule and scabbard appear identical as well. I have often wondered when you see work almost identical like this if it was carried out by the same craftsman or if the company craftsman’s followed a certain artistic technique dictated by management. This dagger was brought back with some early brass based hangers and a sport shirt eagle amazing the grouping still remains together. I am still doing some comparing but I know some people believe Henckels and Gebruder Heller had a unique crossguard I am leaning toward a heavily enhanced Pack 1st I would like to hear some comments regarding this issue from the army guys.
















Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
Tom,
Gorgeous piece and patina, the fittings are still very well defined and the intricate handwork is exquisite. The blade condition would not bother me personally in the slightest as this is a tough maker to find with the earliest Pack parts. I would hazard a guess that there is every possibility that yours and VB's where chiseled by the same hand.
As for the unique crossguard.....not for me, I think they all started out as 1st Packs and each company added their own artistic enhancements. Some to the extreme.
A trick that I still use today on daggers that have been heavily enhanced, disguising the origins of the base crossguard is to view it from about 3-4 foot away ( dependant on your eyesight smile ) so the enhancing does not affect your judgement....you will be suprised how often your first impression is the right one!.
Glorious dagger and one that I would have added in a heart beat,
Congrats.

p.s Is the tang numbered?

Last edited by Degens; 07/07/2013 11:15 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Congratulations, Tom.

What a great collection of slants you have!

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Boy what a sweet patina!! The hand work to the Pack 1st guard ( yea, that is my opinion to ) is just wonderful. I hope my iPad is downloading all your pics because I don't see one of that very interesting pommel you speak of! Like to see that. Congrats on another awesome slant Tom! I would have that baby in a minute! Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Thanks Guys
John Z – I am certainly going to miss you at the max this year.
Jon - Nice to see you’re still alive and well have missed you on the forums. I hope VB can post a picture of his it’s uncanny how similar the hand work details are. Yes we all wish for minty blades but sometimes we have to look past these things. Jon I will have to look at the tang I didn’t notice a number but then again I was not looking for one have you seen some of these that are numbered?
Kevin - Thanks I will put up a picture of the pommel.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Pommel detail – Not a crisp picture I cropped it out of another image but you can make out the little circles representing acorns.

henckels-pommel.jpg (91.29 KB, 276 downloads)

Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
Offline
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,881
Lovely brass base to the fittings as well, forgot to mention that earlier. A sign of really early quality as you already know smile.
Yes, have pictures of a slant Henckels on file ( may very well be VB's Henckels pre-purchase ) with huge "19" numbering to the blade tang.
Great touch with the acorn spacers to the pommel detail, some early Wingen pommels also have a similar addition.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
L
Online Content
L
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
A piece like this is highly desirable in any condition such is the rarity. I doubted to ever see another quite like this but now there are two of what must have surely been a very limited production.

Degens is correct that the example I have is numbered 19 so others may yet turn up!

Stunning dagger IMO and of course the photographs to do it justice!

Fillet steak and daggers are best appreciated rare wink


War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
VB Thank you - I will take another peek at mine to see if its numbered. Could you please post a pic of your beautiful example for us to gander at.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
L
Online Content
L
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
Tom the one I have has suffered from poor storage and not comparable in my honest opinion but like I said collectable in any condition.

I had forgotten about johnny V`s so that makes 3 we know of.

here is the link to a previous post

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=21641&page=1

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
VB personally I think your Henckels is a nicer dagger. I took another peek at mine and it is not numbered I did notice it has a really thick leather blade washer like yours.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
W
Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 103
I too managed to add a Henckels to my collection last year. It is a very well made dagger, with lots of hand enhancing to the brass based guard. The blade is nice, but has some very light sharpening on one edge, unfortunately. I have not had it apart, so do not know about numbering.
Wolfgang

Overallred 600.jpg (65.38 KB, 184 downloads)
Guard Frontred 600.jpg (72.21 KB, 184 downloads)
Last edited by wolfeknives; 07/19/2013 04:18 PM.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
That is a beauty Wolfgang!! Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Wolfgang real nice Henckels !


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
R
RFI Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 693
I guess the one I picked up is the poor mans version without the hand enhancements.
Best Wishes,
Bob

IMG_3216.JPG (59.61 KB, 100 downloads)
IMG_3222.JPG (51.42 KB, 101 downloads)
IMG_3264.JPG (38.63 KB, 100 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Bob that certainly is an unusual example. First I have seen with Alcoso fittings and the maker mark is one I have only seen on 2nd model Luftwaffe blades. I can say Henckels did use Alcoso fittings on some 2nd model Luftwaffe’s but this is a new configuration for me on an army. Looking forward to opinions from other heer collectors.



Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Very interesting piece Bob, as Tom says, I haven't seen this combo of Alcoso Heer fittings and Henckels blade but it does make sense as Henckels used Alcoso fittings, totally unaltered on mid period Luft 2nds..I had one! Must say this is a rare variation if original..lets hear from someone else that has one...Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Kevin thanks for the input - Well following my theory this mark is seen on 2nd lufts (1937) that would put this dagger in that time frame so it could be a later period Henckels Army? Or something else. Guess for a maker mark collector it would hold more interest then to us crossguard and slant guys.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,513 SS Bayonets
1,760,289 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,765 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Hiddensee brooch
by benten - 03/24/2024 04:13 PM
Latest New Posts
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/28/2024 06:18 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Gaspare - 03/28/2024 12:34 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 11:30 PM
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Frog question.
by Dutchman - 03/27/2024 03:27 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,652
Posts328,704
Members7,501
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
16 members (Tanker, JonathanC, Baz69, Landser, Billy G., Documentalist, AndyRose, Duzig, atis, Jonesy, Nietzsche, Dave, OWN, Mikee, Stephen, benten), 560 guests, and 93 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5