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Hello - I was wondering if anyone has heard of Schloss & Stern Solingen so I could possibly date this new acquisition. It looks to be in really nice shape with stag handles. Any assistance or information would be appreciated. I believe these are also referred to as "pig stickers", but that's all I know. Any info on company, years in business, etc. would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Todd

SchlossSternFoldingHunter.jpg (113.88 KB, 298 downloads)
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Here is a pic of the blade stamp...Thanks,

$(KGrHqZHJFcFD258HTzyBQ-)9wJ-Lg~~60_3.gif (116.37 KB, 298 downloads)
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..in sheath pic.
Any information on this knife is much appreciated.
Regards,
Todd

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Can't find this name listed in Fisher's 7th edition. May be a distributor.

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Thanks DONS, don't have that book. Look what I just found scouring the net from World Knives dotcom website. This was the copy under the photo below.

"I ran across this photo from a catalog of the Gottlieb Hammesfahr company. There is some question as to how long they have been in business, but references have been made to them being established in the late 17th century. They are mostly known for the weapons they made during WWII although they have produced a wide variety of cutlery types (like the folding hunters shown)."

Could this be a Gottlieb Hammesfahr distributed by Schloss & Stern? Mine looks to be identical to the one shown second from bottom, with a slightly shorter blade. I heard they were in business from 1684 (modern company started in 1804) to 1971, so still would like to narrow down the date on this one.

Thanks for any help.

Todd

p.s. I found another like mine, but with 10 1/2" blade, not 8", and it had no marks. This may lend itself to the fact that Gottlieb Hammesfahr did make them unmarked for distributors and/or importers (wouldn't they be marked differently if was post WWII and was imported?)...any help is appreciated...

Last edited by Urban Edge; 01/28/2013 02:14 AM.
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Old ad referenced above...
This one, second from bottom, seems to be just like the 10.5" version I saw somewhere else, that one had no makers mark on it unlike the one in the ad which is marked Gottlieb Hammesfahr.
Notice the bolster and guard are one piece and static; they do not swing.

More information on Gottlieb from GREYBEARD at badgerandblade dotcom_"A well-respected Solingen knifemaker who was rumored to have started business in the late 17th century. They manufactured a lot of the edged weapons for the German army in WWI & WWII. Most of their razor production was in the 1920's and 1930's. They were bought out by Wilkens (silverware manufacturers) in 1971 and the name disappeared. Wilkens sold their hunting knife division (which was probably Gottlieb Hammesfahr) to Henckel in 1995. Just for a little trivia, Ernst Hammesfahr invented the folding pocket corkscrew in 1898 for which wine drinkers everywhere are eternally grateful."

fhunt1sm.jpg (95.1 KB, 252 downloads)
Last edited by Urban Edge; 01/28/2013 02:12 AM.
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It's Schl�ss und Stern Solingen,correct? Please have another look at the marks, "padlock with keyhole" and a "star" (or stern in German) on each side of it. Not Schloss which means castle. Other firms made these type knifes as well and I don't believe that blades with no maker mark were specifically made for distributors for reasons I've stated in past posts. Thank you.


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Sorry typo, I was thinking of Schl�ssel for some reason which means key when I was typing. Not Schloss which means castle. It's Schloss which in this case means lock. So Schloss and Stern it is. Every little bit helps I hope. Thank you.

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Todd,

This is known as a Verl�ngerungsmesser, or, "flexible-folding-extension" knife. They're listed in many original Solingen blade catalogs, normally under the heading of forestry and hunting weapons. Considering how many major and minor Solingen weapons/cutlery producers there were at the turn of the century, and then distributors on top of that, I'd say you've found a nice rare one there. I can't recall ever having seeing that name listed, or even heard mention of a Schloss & Stern-marked sidearm before. That's part of the excitement of collecting these things - new information is constantly found. If I had to say how old, judging by the scabbard design and decoration, mid-twenties, early thirties? possibly even teens?

Information from a German book, "Deutsche Kampfmesser," states that this type of knife was even carried by German Colonial troops in East Africa.

Even though yours looks nearly identical to the example on the Hammesfahr product-sheet, it could have come from any number of sources, especially having that unusual marking. A lot of firms made these. Whatever the case may be, your Messer looks to be in super condition, as many of these fine tools are found in "worked-to-death" condition. wink

Best!

Bill

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While these type knives are not particularly rare, this hilt design is! Good catch on a unique knife in great shape..Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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Thanks to you all for some great information. I noticed the lock and 'stars', but didn't think to check my German. Okay, so it could actually have been made by Schloss (Padlock) and Stern (Star), not necessarily positively had to be made by Gottlieb due to the found advertisment showing similar knife. I am also very happy to learn that it is most likely from 1930's or slightly prior. For its fine condition, this turned out to be a nice find. This is fun! Thanks again. Regards, Todd

p.s. Since I couldn't find Schloss & Stern maker marks in my solingen research, does this mean that they were definitely not a maker and must have been distributor or "middle man", or were there so many at times in Solingen that some may have been left out from the more accesible makers mark information we can find on the web? I searched over three hundred marks and found most every other maker you could imagine by doing so, except for this Schloss & Stern mark. If Schloss & Stern were two gentlemans last names, I could see it being more than likely a company other than the maker, but, since the names represents the lock and stars as also imaged in their mark, that looks like a makers mark to me...? Having fun sleuthing this one out. Thanks again.

Last edited by Urban Edge; 01/29/2013 01:58 AM.
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Good stuff Bill. Thank you sir.

Last edited by Urban Edge; 01/29/2013 02:01 AM.
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Some close ups _

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Another close up _

2.jpg (98.79 KB, 159 downloads)
Last edited by Urban Edge; 01/29/2013 02:06 AM.
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Dear community,

I see that the starting thread is dating back 11 years ago in 2013 !

Anyway I trust that an update might be of interest.
While joining this outstanding forum I was surprised not finding any reference of SCHLOSS & STERN cutler or dealer or wholesaler in any German directories or files from my archieves ... so I completerd my 'to-do-list'.

By chance I recently noticed a preview published by the (German) Chambre of Commerce in Leipzig (Saxonia) in an 1893 magazine, listing hundred of exhibitors of a forthcoming tradefair with this entry of a Solingen "Stahlwarenfabrik" (steelware factory):

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

So far unknown to me are the following three additionally listed cutlers:

E. Melchior
Jos. Löb Söhne (Jos. Loeb Sons)
C. Louis Schaub

Maybe any collector of this community has a so marked pice in his collection.

chevalier2022

Last edited by chevalier2022; 01/23/2024 09:22 AM.
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Good research work chevalier2022. We now have an approximate date of 1893 for Schloss & Stern, Solingen.

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chevalier2022 it is always a good feeling when one of our collector riddles is solved. Even the excellent research reference book of Carter and Ritter does not list these certain makers. I gladly add them in my personal copy.
Reards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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Nice work Chevalier!
Sometimes this online PDF by John Walter can be a help:

https://www.archivingindustry.com/cutlers&toolmakers/cutlermarks-1.pdf

Regards,
Ger

Last edited by Gerrit1963; 01/25/2024 07:56 AM.

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