UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Police Uniforms Forum SS collar tabs for the Orpo???

Happy New Year to all Polizei students and enthusiasts!

I’m hoping to put Roger Bender in a position to publish volume 3 in our series of books on the Polizei this year, although that could slip into 2014. It won’t be as massive as volume 2 (known also as “the brick” or “door stop”), but hopefully will help document this fascinating subject and answer some more outstanding questions. It should cover 5 or 6 subjects, starting with the Verwaltungspolizei and Schutzmannschaften, moving on to the various types of fire Police and fire brigades, the Wasserschutzpolizei and more.

This post is aimed at trying to clarify one subject that remains uncertain and confused (at least to me), and where attempts to clarify it are contradictory.

It’s the decision in 1943 to change all Orpo collar patches – except for the Wasserschutzpolizei – from the existing Polizei pattern (similar of course to that of the German Army) to an SS pattern. Jack Angolia dealt with this in our volume 2 (pages 50/51), but there are still some loose ends I’d really like to be able to sort out. So here goes.

In April 1942 Himmler ordered that Orpo generals, as well as administrative officials holding equivalent rank, were to wear SS style collar patches, but on a green rather than black backing (Deuster, “Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen 1936-1945”, pp. 129, 150, 447 & 449, who quotes RFSS-Bef. v. 7.4.1942 and RdErl. d. RFSSuChdDtPol. v. 23.7.1942, neither of which were published). Yet Andreas Schulz/Günter Wegmann/Dieter Zinke on page 721 of their Band II of “Die Generale der Waffen-SS und der Polizei” (Biblio, 2005) gives a note with reference to Otto Adolf Walter Goldbach that the decree for generals to wear “SS style” (“SS-Stil”) collar patches was dated 22 July 1942 (not 23 July 1942) and took effect from 15 August 1942.

QUESTION 1: 22 or 23 July 1942? Does anyone have the full texts of these April and July 1942 Decrees?

In January/February 1943 Himmler extended that order to apply to all other uniformed members of the Orpo (Deuster, op.cit., who quotes RdErl. d. RFSSuChdDtPol. v. 4.1.1943 & 1.2.1943, published in RMBliV 1943, pp. 54 & 208 respectively). The first of these two decrees confirms Jack’s statement on page 50 of our volume 2: “SS collar patches to be worn by all police officers, including those posted to higher HQs”.

QUESTION 2: What did each Runderlass say exactly – does anyone have the full texts?

A decree of March 1943 cancelled the requirement for ranks below generals to make the change from Polizei to SS style collar patches, but generals (and administrative officials holding equivalent rank) continued to wear them with a green backing (administrative officials had previously had light gray backings) (Deuster, op.cit., pp. 152 & 450, who quotes RdErl. d. RFSSuChdDtPol., v. 20.3.1943 & 16.8.1943 (published in RMBliV. 1943, pages 481 & 1,353)).

QUESTION 3: What did each Runderlass say exactly – does anyone have the full texts?

Reports suggest that these SS type collar patches were never issued to, let alone worn by members of the Orpo below generals’ rank.

QUESTION 4: OK, that’s why Deuster only provided drawings of the (green) patches for Anwärter der Schutzpolizei to Oberstleutnant der Schutzpolizei in his chart on page 151 of his book, and 4 examples of other branches, to include a Polizeiinspektor with light gray backing. But how does that explain the PHOTOGRAPHS of 10 patches he gives on page 150, to include one for a Polizei-Rat of the Verwaltungspolizei with light gray backing? Fakes? Or were these patches made, despite the withdrawal order?

BTW an unconfirmed theory of mine is that the 3 Police auxiliary organizations (Technische Nothilfe, Volunteer Fire Brigades and Luftschutzpolizei) DID receive and wear SS style collar patches right up to the end of the war, amply confirmed at least for the TN in my coverage in volume 2, but also original uniforms of the Volunteer Fire Brigades.

I hope I have not taken up too much space and readers' patience and that the above may prove of interest, even if we cannot come up with the answers. But it would be great to resolve this chapter in the complex story of TR Polizei uniforms in the third Polizei "Bender book".

Hugh

Do you plan on including a section correcting those errors in the previous two volumes we had discussed a while back? I will look in my files for the decrees you are seeking.

Dear Joe: Yes indeed, although sadly - as so often turns out to be the case - few readers take the trouble to contact us direct (or via Roger) with their comments.

SO PLEASE! Anyone out there with corrections or suggestions to make to the content of the first 2 volumes of "Uniforms, Organization and History of the German Police" (Bender, 2004 & 2009, my how time flies) - please give us the chance to set the record straight and share this information with our readers. Ideally by e-mail or letter to J. James Bender Publishing, or via this esteemed Forum. That said, I'm reluctant to suggest quotes from Deuster's book as that would require considerable time and trouble, but we will naturally be considering anything he came up with that adds to or corrects the subjects covered so far - and we will of course do the same for future chapters.

Best wishes to all from a very hot Australia.

Hugh

Ooops, that should of course be R. James Bender Publishing...

Hugh