UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Need Opinins on this Herder SS Dagger

Can I get opinions on this Herder SS dagger and Verticle hanger Please....

Is it authentic and original?

All opinions appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Ed

looks great to me,but see what the others have to say. paul

See no "red flags." Looks like a very nice example.

Very nice dagger

My only concern is the red wood underneath the black stain. Sometimes the original hard ebony wood splits/chips so badly, an SA grip will be stained black and the runes button switched to make an "SS" grip. It would be nice to look up inside the grip tang opening to see if you can tell if it's be re-stained.

John

vintagetimenow is right. I missed the "red" the first time around. Guess I thought it was the sunlight on it. Ebony grips were sometimes dyed to give the wood a uniform appearance, especially as demand picked up for SS daggers. However, ebony does not normally have a reddish appearance. I must say the grip is about as perfect a fit to the guards as you will see. The "red" could be from strong sunlight hitting the wood and there may have been something in the dye, if it was dyed, to give the reddish appearance. Often, ebony will have an odor that is somewhat spicy.

Grip color got my attention also . Could very well be an original dyed grip , but I would ck it very carefully for any signs of tampering . As already stated it looks like a real nice fit . JMO

SAME HERE, SORRY I SPOKE TO SOON. PAUL

The surface of this grip looks very smooth,so it's possible it is re-dyed.But it fits very well and i don't see any other problems!
I like it.
Does the etch shows bubbles,on the edge of the letters?

Gerd

Hold on for a minute, Gents.

All ebony is NOT jet black. Red and yellow streaks or not uncommon at all. Look up "ebony wood" on Google.

See picture below of an ebony cane. IMO, many SS grips were dyed to cover the streaks or because other hardwoods were used. It is not unusual to find SS grips with lighter patches where the dye has worn thin.

Kreta - I've seen several acid etches with that look.

PS - I was told that the original dye was very poisonous

Dave

Too much dissecting of a PERFECTLY good SS dagger....the handle and the rest of the dagger is spot on and fine, as it should be...., cheers Ryan

I'm not condemning the dagger, overall it looks good. But, if you've tried to sell something from your collection, you KNOW it will be scrutinized, so I say, scrutinize it before you buy. The grip fit is ok, but there is a gap. Usually, the wood overhangs the cross guard from years of pressure, which makes them prone to the chipping we see so commonly. The gap is a little less common, enough to exercise caution, and check a little closer.

It is a misconception that all SS dagger grips were made of ebony. From what I have seen, relatively few were. Real ebony has unique features in the density and smoothness of the finished product. It also chips or fractures unlike other wood species. I have no problem with the grip on the Herder shown, but I doubt that it is ebony. It does have the typical slim profile of a Herder and the SS rune looks to be entirely unmolested.

Looks ok to me. "Slim Jim" grip plus low placement of eagle, often seen on a Herder.

Dave,
i know two different types of ebony.
1.The dark black Ebony from western africa.
2.Makassar ebony from indonesia. It is a (dark) brown wood and black streaked. It looks like the one shown below.
As i already said,i like it !

Gerd

I agree with Skyline. Few grips were real ebony 99% were hardwood dyed blavk with anoline, (sp?) dye. They were boiled I believe and this tends to make them more suseptible to chips and cracks.

Aniline dye is toxic because it is produced from Benzine..interestingly, not all grips used this type of dye , as one tested at U of O labs showed no properties consistent with that class of chemical.

Also agree that many (most?) SS grips were dyed hardwood.

Am I the only one who sees traces of reddish stains on the eagle wings?

Dave

Most of the earlier grips I have seen are ebony. The very early examples appear to be of a higher quality wood. Presumably, the supply of such ran low or ran out and the makers turned to a lower grade to fill their needs. The Indonesian type, above, is one of those and, in order to give the grips a uniform black finish were often dyed black. As demand grew even more, other woods were dyed black to meet the manufacturers' needs. I certainly haven't seen it all, nobody has, but in my personal experience, I have not seen an SS grip that has the reddish hue under the black this one has, presuming the photos accurately reflect the actual colors. I have seen various shades of brown, tan and gray showing through, but never red. It would be interesting to see additional photos of this grip taken in different light.

Hi Paul,
Boiled,that's interessting.Do you meant aniline ?
Were they boiled in aniline?

Gerd