UBB.threads

Hi All:

Some of you may have seen the unground SS Röhm dagger (No. 7054) in the upcoming Hermann Historica auction. It is numbered "77 133" on the back of the lower cross guard in the manner as ordered on 28 June 1934.

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

Through my research I am able to identify SS Mann No. 77 133 though you will not find him listed in the SS-Dienstalterlistes. He has a Race & Settlement File in the National Archives which includes his three required photos.

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

His required Fragebogen is included in his RuSha file which gives some of his service information up to the time that he submitted his application. It shows that he joined the SS on 15 January 1933. He also fills in "nein" in the space for identifying previous membership in either the SA or the Hitler Jugend. We have established that a man had to have continuous membership in the SS or one of these organizations as of 31 December 1931 in order to receive the Ehrendolch in 1934. I have to wonder why he received one?

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

His required Lebenslauf is also found in his RuSha file. I wonder if anyone see anything here that would have qualified him to have received the Ehrendolch in 1934.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

Good question Ross.

Because he became a member of the Partei and the allg SS at the same time .

a Bonus

Gerd

Possibly a deeper reason buried somewhere in unfound files which made this guy very important more so than what the Rusha is letting on. But 2 days before Rohms demise?...unless it was intended not to create a stir of suspicion and made activities business as usual. When planning a surprise party ( Rohms!) great secrecy and working behind the scenes makes any party a success!! Just a thought!

Strange looking numbers.

Larry,
"But 2 days before Rohms demise?..." i can't follow you.
Ross,
the hand written lebenslauf shows, he joined the ss and partei on January 10th

A typo in his file ?

the last sentence(blue marked) is also interesting.
"Discharged" on june 1st 1942,with the rank of an ss unterscharführer.

Gerd

I see what looks like a district stamp III on the back of the lower crossguard,, could this man and the district stamp be linked together?
Gerd I dont follow it either as the timing is very close as I said.
So far we have seen his join dates that are in question, is there anything else in his RuSha dossier that would shed some light on his where abouts "physically". ie: where was he stationed and what function was he serving. I am sorry I can not read the German script that well. With no Dienstalterliste info the mystery deepens. Great dagger and a great thread! Larry

Indeed Larry!

But i'm sure Ross makes it possible!

Regards,
Gerd
Btw: I wish you a happy easter,mate!!

Thanks Gerd the same to you and yours! I know Ross will find the truth as his digging tools are sharper! Watch out for the Bunnies on Easter,, you know... the tall blond ones!

There is nothing else in his RuSha File to shed light on receipt of this dagger. He has a NSDAP membership file card which does not add any clues so that's it for this side of the pond. Unfortunately, his Stammkarte is not in his RuSha File. These were not required as part of the application process to get married, but cards for enlisted & NCO's were sometimes put in these files during the "big sort" of SS documents after the war. I have several reasons for the number being legit that I would not want to post publicly to benefit the unscrupulous. I would say that I can't see any advantage to going to the trouble to stamp a seemingly unidentifiable SS number on an already rare full Röhm dagger when it doesn't really add much more to its monetary value.

Happy Easter!

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

That's also a strange scabbard for an Eickhorn. Plus I never seen the dedication so close to the logo.
Oh Well...not one for my collection.


-serge-

Interesting observations , so does everyone agree ? Is it a fake ?

I wouldn't judge a röhm dagger,with only three pics.

Gerd

Hi All:

Looks like someone liked it. It sold for 6500 Euros+ 23% buyer's premium ( approx. $10,513.43 total). Wondering if I will hear from the buyer.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com
www.ss-numbers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

Looks like a E Pack/120/34 scabbard to me . Never seen number stamped in this manner.

byf,

If you mean a number stamped to the left and right leaving the I or II or III intact, that is not common but I have seen 6 or 8 at least. And, the EP&S relationship to 120/34 has never been proven. EP&S provided scabbards to several manufacturers.

Dave

In my 30 plus years of looking up SS numbers from daggers for people, I have NEVER seen this size number fonts nor does it look like anything I have seen on an SS dagger. IMO the number is not period without closer examination.

That was my initial impression, Ron. I wouldn't go so far to say absolutely they were applied postwar, but they are odd-looking. Since most, if not all numbers were stamped within a certain time period, you would think they would have a degree of standardization, though stamped in different locations. These numbers look like some serious grinding/polishing took place after they were stamped. They appear to be "sunken." Again, who can be certain? Personally, I would stay with known patterns, as seen on daggers of known early origin that bear numbers.