UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Hunting, Forestry, and Shooting Forum JAGDMESSER THREAD

Hello folks, we all like and appreciate the Hirschfangers,Standhauers and their other large brothers but how often do we take a minute to show and enjoy the smaller "messer" that are real works of art in their own right?? I hope this will be a thread that will showcase these knives that were out there in the field with the hunters while the flashier Hirschfangers were hanging in the closet at home! So please pull them out and post them here. I will start with a few sheath knives that I have aquired over the years. Some are pre and war time made and a few are post war...

First group includes a Saufanger or "Verlangerungsmesser" by Gebr. Grafrath Solingen(shown in there prewar catalog) with the pre and war time maker mark. Also two "nickers", one by Sudd Messer Fabrik with the "immatation Stag" done in wood, and an Anton Wingen. Lastly in the group is a Jagdmesser by Knecht & Co. with a nice blade etch.

Next group are all folders, the most unappreciated group of German hunting blades in my opinion. I really like the folders becouse they are a piece of the period you can carry around in your pocket and share without looking like a nut!! In this group you see two beautiful Jagdmesser with shotshell puller bolsters, one by Klaas and the other by Wingen. Also a large Jagdmesser by Gebr. Grafrath with Stag scales to die for!! Next is a folder by Gustav Voss(Foxhead mark) that is a "trick lock" type, the main blade locks and is unlocked by pushing down on the spine of the folded secondary blade! Fun to hand to your friends open and ask them if they can close it. Last is a "Lever Lock" switchblade folder by Boker, opened by flipping down the thumb lever and squeezing it. Also released from its locked position the same way. I know this Boker to be post war due to buying it myself in Nuremberg in the 90's! These were very popular pre war though and hope to see some more shown on this thread!

more pics...a small flock of Cranes on the Klaas! All a bit different from blade to blade...

more...killer pre-war Gebr. Grafrath...

Gustav Voss trick lock....

Last, etched blade of the Boker lever lock switchblade, anyone wanting more pics of any of these just ask!!! Lets see all your JAGDMESSERS guys!!! Kevin.

Kevin,
Your collection is amazing...very nice. I love these little pointy knives.
Here's my contribution.

Rich

THANKS for your contribution Rich! I thought you might post the twin of my Sudd Messerfabrik!(nicer shape than mine!) And your Kuno Ritter (the the owning family and original trade name of modern day Hubertus!!) is simply exceptional and a real beauty!! Kevin.

Kevin,

An excellent, long-overdue subject.

I completely agree with you that these types of hunting/forestry blades are often ignored and neglected. There are literally hundreds of fine models and styles to choose from - an amazing variety of high quality weapons/devices exist in this collecting field. The tooling and precision of these knives is comparable to a surgical instrument, in fact, many of the original manufacturing companies produced both. Really a great area in which to study Solingen's engineering and qualitative excellence.

Hope you might enjoy this deluxe version by Anton Wingen, Jr. (you can just make out the mis-stamped knight-logo on the blade) Several of these Nicker models have animal head motifs on the pommel cap, to include the more modern post-war examples, so be careful in that respect if you want to collect pre-1945, examples. Here we have a detailed gamsbock's head decorating the cap, along with the familiar dense, black horn grip from the same animal. Lots of clever handwork and fine animal engravings throughout the fittings, to include the original owner's initials, "FS."

Good collecting to all !

Bill

2/5

3/5

4/5

5/5

Bill,
So glad to see you posted this one. Absolutely stunning top shelf item for sure.

I know you have more of these treasures tucked away and would love to see them also.

You have a fine quality collection.

Rich

A very nice varity of some really top notch knives being shown here. The quality and detail are amazing. Thank you all for making my day!

Bill, The detailed hand work on that baby is second to none!! Really unique and beautiful piece. You guys are blowing me away here! Lets see more....

Mine hasn't the quality of what has been shown so far. Mostly new in fact.

Mikee,

These are splendid little knives to collect, both pre and post-'45 examples can make excellent additions to anyone's collection of Solingen steel.

That's one interesting "desk-organizer" in your photo, a silver and gold raptor's foot clutching an eagle for the top, very nice!

Best!

B~

Mikee,

Very nice example you show here.

The combination of detail and quality on these seem to be endless.

Thanks for showing.

Rich

Mikee, VERY nice example! Has very fancy fittings and very nice color to the stag grip! Is there a maker on the blade? WHAT is the object under the knife too!!?? Like to see some folding knives here from your collections too!! Kevin.

My humble pair of messers............

One is Puma....The other no maker and blade is a little rough
but I'm happy with them

No maker on this one....
As always.... excuse my photographic skills (getting old)

Kevin,

Thanks, I agree it has a beautifully colored stag grip not often seen, but no maker. The gold and silver object is of a very nicely detailed eagles talon (Fang des Adlers) grasping a snake. I use it on my desk. Glad you all like it. Thanks.

Lou,

Very nice and not humble at all. And nice plaque as well. Wish I owned it, never seen that on a hunting knife before. I like Pumas!

Hmm! pictures didn't take the first go around. Here's the no maker blade. Thanks for asking.

.

Mikee, Very nicely decorated piece and i like the plaque also. Have we seen it before? I see a partial date but how about a picture. James

Lou,

That Puma is very nice, good score. That second one has a unique blade style, neat how it 'steps-up' one layer like that.

Mikee,

Great gilded highlights to that etch pattern, those don't come around too often. Yes, that does look like a top-notch hunter's Christmas gift, is that a recent score? Looks to be some excellent 'schnitzing' on thay unit ...

Kevin,

Would love to see more nice folding-knives too, those big hefty suckers are great, but smaller ones can be just as nice. Has anyone ever seen any personalized models, or have one they could post?

Great stuff fellas, thanks!

Bill

Lou, I agree, your Puma with the Third Reich reference is quite unusual!! very neat. Like the other too with that unusual blade, nice fancy fittings on that too!

Mikee, That etching and guilting is really special! THANKS for showing..

Bill, I agree, lets see some folders!!!

Kevin..

James, Bill, Kevin,

Thanks for asking. Actually I've had it for quite some time and I don't believe I've shown it before. I use it on one of my end tables and try to keep it filled with candy. The left side is the same as the right and it's dated 1945. It has a trademark on the back and on the front the artists name. Glad you all like it! Thanks.

My contribution to hunting knife. Does come from my own family, a relative of mine got it presented by his university professor. Further history unknown. a knife with many uncommon details.

Why it is a hunting knife! St.Hubertus is shown.

And the period during which this knife was produced is no mistery...

And a never by me seen makersmark.

I have shown this knife before (can�t remember when and where) but I think it fits this thread again.
Regards,

Wotan,

WOW! I don't remember you showing it. That is one heck of a nice Spezialmesser. I don't recall seeing that brand before either. Does the pommel come off to store something in the hollow grip and does it have a scabbard? That's a treat! Thanks for showing it...again.

Wotan,

Fantastic piece to say the least. The ornate detail on the handle is just superb.

Thanks for showing.

Rich

Thank you for looking and I am glad that you appreciate this knife.
Mikee, as you recognized correctly the handle is hollow, kind of tube. The material of the knife is an early kind of high quality stainless steel. The handle is cut and carved steel, hollow as stated. There are not the least traces of welding, all seems to be one piece although I am sure that the blade and the pommel (no, the pommel cannot be removed) was separately fixed.
There was only a very very simple and fragile handmade "scabbard" (just a sewn together piece of leather" which did not match in any respect and it is now gone to time.
In all the well known books about manufacture marks i could not find this mark or even a close one.
It is my assumption that this is an assistant- or masterpiece either from a knifemaker or a related profession (gun maker, graveur etc etc) -therefore also the fantasie mark- but I do not know anything for sure.
Anyway imo it is a very impressive, in a curious way but in high quality manufactured knife.
Regards,

I would have to agree and a one of a kind. It really is something special! I looked in my references as well,nothing except other much older stars, but not even close to your defined brand.

Wooow Wotan,what a unique knife,i have never saw something similar,very nice.



Congrats
Stingray

Wotan,

This elegant piece reminds me of the 'open-type' designs of the G�ring hunting knives. Of course those were designed in a flatter, 3-D, linear fashion but the quality is "right up there ... one for the books!" There should be no doubt this was crafted by a master-smith - your relative must have been held in high esteem to receive such a wonderful gift.

It makes me wonder how many other fine, unknown hunting/forestry weapons from this period are out there, belonging to families and private collections? Has anyone ever been 'behind-the-scenes,' at the Klingenmuseum in Solingen? I'll bet they have a few lovlies tucked away..?

Some of the guys are complaining about the relative quiet here on the forums ... I guess they haven't seen this thread then? How much more could you ask from an edged-weapon? Nothing to say or comment on here, ... kidding, right? There's a good possibility that we've all become over-priveledged and spoiled-rotten with the internet these days? Do we dream only of Himmler Birthday Degen and other such grandiose, elusive things, eh?

I must honestly admit that this fantastic knife has exceeded my expectations in all aspects - from stem-to-stern. This is one of those rare gems that you'd want to inspect on your desk with a good magnifying glass for several days..!

Kunsthandwerk.

Thanks good sir!

W~

Thank you all, it is always a true pleasure to share something with you.

The "hunting section" of our forum is just for certain admirers as this thread especially too.

@ WWII, as stated the knife has it�s unique features but by far not the quality -at least the selected materials- of an HG hunting weapon. These HG�s are superior. Here eg. the material is just stainless steel (perhaps at these times not common and I think also a bit expensive) but you are right, a "small pocket" HG hunting weapon . And, jes, as it (for me) shows more secrets than it offers it might fire someones imagination.
Regards,

Hello: Wotan
The trademark on the jagdmesser matches the company below:

( Gebr. Bohler & Co.) ( Wien I Elisabethstrasse 12)

But from what I see they made Waffenstahl and currently they are are still in the manufacture of steel..Or it may have nothing to do with this company..

I collect period reference and one of the super rare books I have is called the German trademark archive for steel,Iron and Metal-ware from 1943... it covers Germany and Austria... The book is broke down by what the trademark looks like or what symbol is used in the trademark... Regards: James Brown
Old advertisement on French e-bay:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Reklame-Stahlwerke-Gebr-Bohler-Co-Berlin-Wien-1918-/390255360169?pt=Antiquarische_B%C3%BCcher&hash=item5add0838a9

Damast, well, that are interesting news! Could you -please- show the certain page(es) of the book here or can you send it at [email protected] ?
The B�hler works are still in action. But they were/are only known by producing iron and steel, not by manufacturing small hardware. Nevertheless the quality of the steel would fetch the prestigious firm.
If I could see the certain relation I perhaps can do further investigations.
Thank you for your interest and this information, regards,

Wotan

Your's is an amazing knife, I've never seen the like before and I doubt we'll see another again, I hope you can find out more about it now that James has found the manufacturer.

A great knife.

Gary

Here is a quick photo of the trademark in the book.May have something to do with the knife (or it may not) Regards: James

An amazing piece Wotan, The work is nothing short of perfect! If this were to be the maker (Bohler) that would tie in to the hunting and sporting arms theme very well. I have some beautiful works of art that are pre war and war time hunting guns with barrels made with "Bohler Stahl". Thanks for showing! Kevin.

@ DAMAST: Thank you very much for showing this schedule. It truely looks like the trademark I did search for such a long time. Now I have something to build up my investigations.

@ heers68, yes, B�HLER is well known for gun barrels steel, also eg. modern B�HLER Blitz (transl. lign�htning) or B�HLER Super Blitz which are kind of special steel for very thin (and therefore ligth) barrels for hunting rifles.

Regards,

A little off topic from hunting knifes but thought I would show a pair of Henckels damascus knifes.

A pleasure for the eyes! With stag horn grips these knives cannot be much off topic .
Thank you for showing such wonderful damast blades.
Regards,

Mikee,

Yes, that fine pair fits in here nicely. Love that Henckels qualiy in all their products, especially high-calibre blades like these.

Best!

B~

Mikee, If you mail them now, they will come just in time to carve the turkey in November. Love the blade work. James

My 1st shell puller knife. I found this "G. GRAFRATH, SOLINGEN" shell puller knife on eBay. It should arrive soon from Texas.

The master blade locks, and the small file blade is pushed down to release the lock.

My friend in Germany has a very similar knife that he dates to the 1910-1920 period. His knife has the "Bladed corkscrew worm" favored by the Germans.

He dates my knife to the 1920-1930 period partly because of the "Wire helix corkscrew worm".

The first 3 photos are my knife, and the last 2 photos are his knife he listed as: "Altes Taschenmesser Jagdmesser Federdrücker".

My "G. Grafrath, Solingen" Jagdmesser "shell puller" arrived from Texas yesterday. This knife is marked on the back of the tang with "Germany".

I think this maybe a 1950's knife.

So, I have asked my friend in Germany to forward my email to Herr Henning Ritter of Hubertus. Kuno Ritter acquired Gebr. Grafrath, Solingen in 1961.

Herr Ritter helped me date my Kuno Ritter, crown stag Nicker. Nr. 632 / 10cm Ro. I hope he can help me again.

Hey Wetzel,

Nice Jagdmesser. I will check my other reference material but so far my catalog doesn't show this exact one. I'm sure it's in one of the references. Found one similar but they all have different blade configurations and lengths. Best!

Nothing fancy but one I got years ago with an early HJ

Tanker,

I don't know looks pretty nice if you ask me. Thanks for sharing it!

I do like those Jagdnicker knives with the file work.

Hey Mikee, I found that the "G. Grafrath, Solingen" makers mark was used on the 1920's to 1930's knives.

Check out these crazy bottom bolster shell puller knives from the "Blade Blog" by Ulf Ahlstrom, on the flip card for "German shellpuller hunting knives - Jagdmesser mit Patronenzieher".

Here is the link: http://thebladeblog-ulf.blogspot.com/2016/03/german-shellpuller-hunting-knives.html?view=flipcard

Wetzel,

I have admired these lever locks with shell puller for quite some time. Awesome Thank you.

Back in Aug. 2023 I won an auction for a "TREE-BRAND" hunting knife with honey colored pick-bone handle and a custom 1940 to mid-1950's leather sheath. The price with shipping was $111.00.

This knife has the G-11 maker's mark: "H. BOKER & CO'S" over "CUTLERY" over "GERMANY" on the tang, with "TREE-BRAND" on the blade and a tree mark on the reverse side of the tang.

This Boker hunting knife is dated to 1891-1944. See: "A basic introduction to Boker tang stamps", 2009 Mark D. Zalesky and Knife World.

The sheath which is not the original sheath, has the owners name and Pocatello, Idaho where the owner lived from 1943 to about 1955.

These "TREE-BRAND", Boker hunting knives are also found with wood handles.

C. Wetzel-20609

I noticed this unmarked blade, Stag handle, Jagdmesser on the popular auction site listed for only $33.00 and thought I might be clever and get the seller a little more money.

So, I bid $55.00 and won the auction for $52.00 plus $12.65 S+H for a total of $64.85. This Jagdmesser was probably made in Ger. / Austr. / Czech. before 1945.

The sheath bottom fitting is secured with a staple and the snap fastener stud has a 4-pointed geometric star design (sometimes called a "Snowflake" design) that probably dates from about 1915 to late 1930's.

The sheath had a long, large black stain on the front and the stain was removed with FIEBING'S glycerine saddle soap and about 20 cotton balls. This brand of saddle soap has been around since 1895.

This Jagdmesser is well made, and I like it.

I received a reply from Herr Henning Ritter on 17 May 2024 about my Gebr. Grafrath shell puller Jagdmesser:

"Dear Mr. Wetzel,

I misplaced your mail sent nearly 4 weeks ago and did not respond by now. Please apologize.

My sincere compliments for completing your collection with an unusual Gebr. Grefrath multi bladed hunting knife.

An undated sales catalog (handwritten marked „Neue Preise ab 15.10.1927“ (Updated pricing effective Oct. 15th, 1927) is illustrating this knife with (?) pattern # 2687, previous price 72.00 Mark (Reichsmark).

My conclusion: the knife probably was made already all 1920s, possibly even post WWI.

Kind regards

Henning Ritter"

I noted to Herr Ritter there are some differences on my knife: my rear bolster has no grooves; the markings 12 GA & 16 GA are not on the shell puller quillons, but just below the quillons; the champagne blade and the pen blade are on different sides than the 1927 catalog knife.

C. Wetzel-20609

Hey Wetzel,

Nice knife! Great catch at a good price,thanks for showing it. Best!

Hello, some very nice Nicker here!
Let me show what I have:

A Henckels Nicker, 8cm blade, carbon steel, Henning Ritter says, most probably 1920-1930.


Here a Widman & Sohn München Nicker. Widmann had a cutlery shop in Munich and I think this knife could be from the early 20th century, unfortunately, I don't have any further information.
Below, a stainless Puma Nicker, maybe 40ies?


and here a W.Clauberg Nicker. This could be even late 19th century, youngest 1920 as in 1920 Clauberg was purchased with his "knight" logo by Anton Wingen.


..and the same model (1699 in the Anton Wingen Jr Catalogue from 1926) from Anton Wingen, regarding the logo, it could be from 1917.



If you have any further information on one of these knives, that would be GREAT!!!

Cheers
Nicolas

Surfer,

in my opinion (IMO) the "Othello head with shoulders" Anton Wingen Jr. Solingen" mark probably dates about 1917 through the 1920's.

The Puma knife sheath fittings with the middle notches and flat bottom is the type shown in the 1930 Puma catalog. Your Puma makers mark (Puma head, Puma Solingen Rostfrei) on the blade is later (IMO) and maybe dates from about 1936 thought the 1950's. So (IMO) the combination of the older sheath with the later knife could be about 1936 to 1945?

However sometimes the sheaths may not be original to the knife as an owner may have acquired a knife without a sheath and later found a sheath that fits. I have also seen collectors place the wrong sheaths on their Nicker knives, mixing things up.

C. Wetzel-20609

Thank you!!
Here, what I found about Widmann & Sohl München:



A certain Franz Widmann, founded in 1830, is a steel goods dealer (listed as a master cutler in the address book) at Stachus, Karlsplatz in Munich. Other Nicker, probably from the same time as mine, were made by Anton Wingen Jr., possibly also mine (?). Although I the Wingen Nicker knives do have a slightly different blade shape (less pointy / narrow tip).

At first the company name was Franz Widmann, then later, at the latest from 1911, “Widmann & Sohn Munich”.

The shop at Karlsplatz 10, a workshop on Hackenstr. 10., had existed since at least 1866.

There were probably also daggers from the Nazi era that bore the Widmann logo.

Curiosity: The American politician Cassius Marcellus Clay (1810-1903), who was probably a famous knife hero of the time, probably also had a Widmann Nicker in his collection. Although this date doesn't match with what I found, or the "Widmann & SON" name existed before 1911.



Regards
Nicolas

From Newspapers.com.

The McCook Republican, McCook, Nebraska · Friday, July 31, 1903.

Note: "White Hall" is on the pommel of the Nicker.

Hello,
the Wingen Othello nicker arrived today, it's identical to the Clauberg one, maybe the Clauberg with slighly better finish and attention to detail.










Regards
Nicolas