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#262614 04/01/2012 09:40 PM
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Hello collectors,
I would like to thank Bill Warda for the latest piece in my collection, this little S�dd.Messerfabrik skinning knife. This particular one is a little harder to find as it has a wooden carved simulated stag handle. I would also like to add that this knife for it's age has impeccable crossgraining. Myself and a fellow collector, Larry (Siegfried B.) had the privilege of packing up some of our daggers, swords, and a few other goodies, and meeting at Bills house Saturday. Along with picking up this little gem, we were honored to hear stories about his father, grandfather, and relatives that served in the German military branches during the First and Second World Wars. After sitting around the dining room table showing off our latest finds, we were invited into his man-cave, where he impressed us with his amazing collection of Third Reich items...very impressive!!!

Thanks Bill for the historical stories, some collecting tips in the hobby, your generous hospitality, this little S�dd Nicker, and a great day that won't soon be forgotten. Enjoy the pictures.

Rich





















In memory of my loyal companion Nitro.
Pitbull63 #262627 04/02/2012 02:44 AM
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I was very amazed by the detail and beauty of these forestry knives. The sizes the colors etc. Most importantly the education I received just by listening!! After we had show and tell of our own items that we brought... Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches was the order for a light snack. All of our hands were a mess but it didnt stop us from handling some of the best forestry examples i have ever seen.. including John Zs. Some of the peanut butter ( Skippy) as a matter of fact,,ended up inside a few of the scabbards. Im sure that will harden in time and eventually come out in pieces as the knife is forced in and out of the obstruction blocking the throat opening. Im not going to say whose Knives this happened to as it will take the surprise away from the moment the package is recieved in the mail. Pitbull being very cautious has carefully removed some of the acorns on the grips as he said they were loose and felt they did not belong there. Good Job Rich!! Bill warda invited us in his backyard to play quite a few rounds of lawn darts,, and using for darts..you know what...its another surprise that i will not spoil as these darts also were being shipped out in the mail. Sorry Bill for scraping up your cement patio with my missed shots,, but I didnt give up as one finally stuck in the ground to where his cat was just finished sitting at.It was kinda cool seeing that little spark fly when steel hits concrete. Like a tail on a kite the Acorn troddel helped balance the in air flight until it hit its target. It began to rain so we left everything out side as we didnt want to get rain water in our beer. Overall it was a great time,,,,and by the way.....................APRIL FOOLS DAY EVERYONE!!!!............we used Jiffy peanut butter instead!! Larry


Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
Larry C #262628 04/02/2012 02:47 AM
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By the way Rich the deer skull is a nice touch to the skinning knife! Thanks again Bill for being such a great Host. It was honorable to be there. Thanks again. Regards Larry


Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
Larry C #262647 04/02/2012 12:28 PM
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Larry and Rich,

It was great fun having you two gentlemen as guests in my humble abode. As far as I know, looking at and discussing daggers and swords and other collectibles is one of the best ways to spend a cold, dreary Saturday. grin

Thanks for bringing all those great items along to share and enjoy, I'm already looking forward to our next 'dagger get together.' Maybe we can get Billy G, Gary and some others together for another "Saturday show n' tell?"

Larry, good April Fool's tale, ha! wink

Best!

Bill

Pitbull63 #262652 04/02/2012 02:56 PM
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Nice skinner by a scarce maker. S�dd Messerfabrik was located in Gefrees, Bavaria.

DONS #262662 04/02/2012 03:56 PM
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Rich, Very cool little nicker! I just happen to have its twin in my collection! suprised to see another here... Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
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Rich

Impressive knife in fantastic condition, rarely do we see such skinners in this type of condition, they were bought and used, the crossgraining is stunning and I've only seen a few with carved timber grips, there's a lot of extra work in producing such grips and I'm sure it would have pushed the price up when it was first sold.

Thanks for showing

Gary

Baz69 #262690 04/02/2012 10:53 PM
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Nice knife of the S�dd.Messerfabrik.
Btw, that "S�dd." is an abbrevation and means "S�ddeutsche Messerfabrik" (transl. "South German Knife Factory").

And I hold a twin of it (but from the prestigious PUMA firm - I love their edged weapons from the past and from nowadays) as one of my personal hunting knives.
Not so nice condition like the one from Pitbull63, a less ornate scabbard, traces of my use and by far less tasteful photographs (just for showing). But I appreciate it.

Hope you too, regards,

1 (1)r.jpg (111.46 KB, 205 downloads)
1 (2)r.jpg (118.24 KB, 206 downloads)
1 (3)r.jpg (105.84 KB, 206 downloads)
Last edited by wotan; 04/02/2012 10:56 PM.

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Pitbull63 #357030 01/20/2023 10:33 PM
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"Suddeutsche Messerfabrik GmbH; Gefrees in Bayern" is listed in "German Knife and Sword Markers" by J. Anthony Carter on page 525.

Marker marks are S M above F within an octagon and Sudd Messerfabrik above "Rostfrei" or "Garantie" or "Gusstahl".

I found my "Sudd Messerfabrik, Rostfrei" on eBay in Oct. 2020.

IMG-0762.jpg (30.63 KB, 96 downloads)
Sudd Nicker
IMG-0764.jpg (29.78 KB, 96 downloads)
Sudd Nicker
IMG-0765.jpg (28.7 KB, 96 downloads)
Sudd Nicker (mark)
Pitbull63 #357031 01/21/2023 01:44 AM
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wotan, Wetzel,

What's not to like. Very nice examples. Thanks for showing them!

Pitbull63 #357032 01/21/2023 02:22 AM
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They made early SA daggers too.

Dave

SA Sudd Messer.jpg (30.1 KB, 88 downloads)
Pitbull63 #357035 01/21/2023 04:01 AM
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T. Wittmann has one of these listed on his site.

This producer is rated at an 8 on the McSARR scale.

They also have the Gruppe mark on the cross guard which probably dates them before 1938, the date listed in the J. Anthony Carter book.

Any idea on how early this mark is Dave?

And did they have production after the war?

Pitbull63 #357043 01/21/2023 03:24 PM
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"C.",

- Various manufacturers moved to RZM daggers at different dates as their stocks of early materials ran out, but several early SA/SS daggers with 1936 dedications have been found. So 1936 is generally accepted as the last production production year for most early manufacturers.

- Gruppe marks are found on many/most early daggers but not on some and nobody really knows why not. They ended before RZM daggers.

- The above mark can't be dated beyond 1934 to 1936.

- There is the occasional SA dagger found dated 1942 but that is about the end of production. However, enterprising thieves have been producing them up to this very day grin

Dave

Pitbull63 #357046 01/21/2023 04:56 PM
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Thanks Dave,

1934-1936, that sounds right to me. I collected Nazi daggers and swords about 1979-1984.

I think T. Wittmann may have bought my partial, name only removed, Rohm SA dagger by E. Pack for $225.00 back in the day.

I sold my collection and went fishing all the time until I found my 1st stone arrowhead at Charlotteburg Reservoir, West Milford, N. J. about 1991.

After that I collected Native American Indian artifacts every Sunday for 28 years. Now, I am retired and into antique German pocketknives and edged hunting weapons.

What a great site this is at German Daggers.com

Pitbull63 #357049 01/21/2023 07:29 PM
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Thanks,

Next thing you know, it'll be SA then SS.

Dave

Pitbull63 #359870 11/29/2023 05:48 PM
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I found this wood handle, SUDD messer with SUDD advertisement listed for $450.00 on the popular auction site. The advertisement notes a discount for N.S.D.A.P. members.

It is being sold from Bulgaria.

It is an interesting advertisement, if it is real, but it seems to be greatly overpriced.

Web capture_20-11-2023_204451_www.ebay.com.jpeg (25.75 KB, 25 downloads)
SUDD messer with SUDD advertisement
Last edited by C. Wetzel-20609; 11/29/2023 05:51 PM.
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I have some of these, i believe they were found in a batch a few years ago, that is an overly exaggerated price, i think i paid £40 each for them


Regards Sean

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