UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum NSD Oberschule

After a long search I got one
a nice addition to my NSD collection
The cuff title NSD Oberschule Starnbergersee

Jan

You lucky dog, I have never own of those bayonets, came close once but that's another story.

That is one great Oberschule collection... very, very nice.

Is the bayonet an Eickhorn or a Henckels?

Congratulations,

John

Hi John

The bayonet is eickhorn made.
Now I`m looking for a postcart of the
NSD Oberschule

janjan, very nice grouping. The cufftitle is even much much morer rare than the still very rare bajonet itself.
Interestingly there is another cufftitle (I do assume the one shown is for pupils as I am aware of a period photograph of a pupil who is wearing it) which is nearly one of a kind ("Reich´s school NSDAP Feldafing") and was assumptably worn by instructors or, which is the second possibility, was a second, later cufftitle.
Shown is my groupig, lacking much of the items janjan is showing.
My bayonet is also an EICKHORN one
Regards,

Great groupings fellas, this is one of my favorite bayonets.

A shot of the motto.

Dang, I must be the only collector that doesn't have one.

Terry, they have the best one's. mine has been around the block one or two times. and the ones shown are over the top.


steve,

When I was researching my Henckels I came across this picture on some obscure website that was listed as being taken at Reichschule Feldafing. Thought that you might like to see it .

Here is my Eickhorn

And my Henckels

John

Believe me, these are always the same that are shown around (including mine) as they are very rare.

I do have another EICKHORN with the early (oval) trademark but have still no pic of it.

Regards,

I still can`t find any evedance the boys get these bayonets.

And, I recall that an over shoulder Eickhorn was offered for sale a while back.

John

In the Eickhorn Factory Files I saw an order for 500 of these bayonets from Feldafing, so they DEFINATELY were for the school. The order specifically state with this motto. Dated 1942, so we know they continued to be issued during the war.

What Ron citated is a waterproof evidence of perid existance of these bajonets.
There is also a detailed describtion of a FORMER PUPIL of this certain school in a book ("We have been H´s elite pupils" - this book is only in german language) wherein he wrote roughly (after detailed description of their uniform, including this cuff title) "...our most longed for moment was when we got our sidearm, an army bajonet type with the etching -honor, strength, liberty-....". I assume that all is proof enough.
Regards,

The black and white picture above is also dated 1942. Does anybody happen to know when these schools were established?. If Wotan owns a double oval Eick then surely that would suggest as early as 1935.
7-8 years of production.........the places available to the priveleged candidates must have been hugely restricted based on the numbers of these bayonets that survive today?.
Henckels >

@ Degens, in the cited book, in the certain chapter, the pupil writes that the school was founded in 1934. To my best knowledge it was founded by the SA and after the Röhm purge the party took it over.

Still there must have been a certain relationship between the SA and the school after this date as you easily can see in the nice period pic shown by degens and also my other one-of-a-kind (I am not aware of another exemplare) cufftitle was within the estate of a late SAstaffleader.

Regards,

Wotan,
For sure the SA was the principle governing body throughout the period. That is Viktor Lutze pictured inspecting the recruits in 1942, less than a year before he was killed in an automobile accident.
1934 makes perfect sense and ties in nicely with the makers marks so far observered.
PM sent regarding the picture

Here is a picture of a rare compilation of 3 Feldafing bayonets, 2 Eickhorns flanking a Henckels, posted on behalf of DONS. What kills me now, I had not 1 but 2 chances at a Henckels Feldafing bayonet & passed. Wayne Techet had a pair of them some years back & then Don was selling his collection & I passed both times, WTF? Sometimes I amaze myself with my stupidity.

Seriously though, really super bayonets gents, many thanks for sharing. Even better (if possible) is the additional items, pictures & info on this obscure niche of collecting.

Billy:

Thanks for showing.. anyone seen this etch on a long bayo.

John

I have a near mint Eickhorn extra one right now if anyone is still looking.

Ron:

Is it a long one? And which mark is on the blade?

John

Strandard Short with 35 to 41 TM and in choice near mint to mint cond.

Absolutely top-of-the-line sidearms and rare extras!!

Great photos and information fellas, thanks to all who contributed to this valuable and 'eye-catching' thread.

Best regards to all.

Bill

@ JohnZ: In the book the former pupil, who has gotten this certain type of bayonet, clearly describes it generally as the shorter variant of the "long" army type so I personally doubt that there were long variants produced.

Collectors, be careful, I could already observe bayonets with faked inscription. Well done but no cigar when you know the minute and complexe details of originals.

Regards,

Thanks to you all for the possitive replys
Billy, the bayonet with the trottel is the one i got for a while

Any chance to be original?

I really don't like how ragged the letters are.

Sorry.

John

Although in general imo it does not look that bad (we may not judge an etching through a magnifying glass) the etching still lacks in certain details.
Show us please some details of the grip rivets front and reverse and what is the maker?
Regards,

Looks same like a piece listed at Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Bayonet-W...=item3372c16d5d



Stingray

This bayonet from e-bay and I am interested on it, so that's why I want your opinions.
Thanks again,
Andrei

Can't offer much on the engraving , but have a look at the mortise slot , does it fan out? or is it just the pic !

Look at the blood groove and the letters! Not like mine and I would pass on this one.

Thanks guys,
I'll pass on it.

Hi Ronald,

Do you have a scan of that order by any chance? I only ask because I have always been a little sceptical of these knives. I've been close to pulling the trigger a couple of times but always hesitated because no one seemed to have anything definitive to say about them. As far as I'm aware, there isn't a single photo showing pupils at the NSD Oberschule (later Reichsschule) wearing them. Hope you can help or that you can direct me to further resources? Thanks in advance!

Sorry, I saw a large grouping of Eickhorn factory files at the MAX Show when Atwood (who bought them when the Eickhorn company closed) was selling them and I ramdomly leafed through the stacks of invoices and just happened to read them and this was one I took note of as they were sold to a collector from Tx.
I have found a six of this bayonet out of the woodwork, directly from veterans and had always wondered what their purpose was, and, by stroke of luck, was in the right place at the right time.
I believe the collector considered doing a book on the files, but he was not capable of the translation and, due to the large number, abandoned the project and, I have been told, sold the files and I don't know where they went.
Also, unless you were a knowledged collector, you wouldn't have caught the significance of the invoice.
At the time (1980s) interest in files was not of importance like it is today.

Okay Ronald. Thanks.

I think that I might know where those files are... and he is on this forum occasionally.

John

Great thread!

Thanks John. This is great news. It would be extremely helpful to see a scan of the relevant page if that proved to be possible.

More students from Feldafing.

Here are 2 of the villa's used by the school. Villa Waldberta and Villa Maffei (also known as the Adolf Wagner House)

Postcard of school.

Just wondering whether there is any news on the catalogue John.

Nope.. I guess that the guy I am thinking of is wrong or is just shy.

John

Thanks John. That's a shame, it would have been good to see something black and white about these knives that would definitely place them into the period. Another collector recently told me about a book where an ex-pupil of the Oberschule at Stanberger See decribed his equipment and clothing and he, although he had rank, did not mention that he had a knife issued to him. That kinda negates the account of the other boy mentioned earlier in this thread so I think my decision not to pull the trigger back then was the right one for now.

Anyway, thanks again for trying to find the catalog. I appreciate it

Hello: John
(IF) The document was there in the Eickhorn Texas grouping it is not there now! Sorry John

Damast:

I was thinking of you here, but, it is too bad that the document is not in that grouping.

John

of interest to this thread W SARRIS who has a vast store of period documents has informed us on the HJ forum that there is positive reference to this blades existence in his archive.

PAUL

Here's the discussion: http://www.hj-research.com/forum/f42/nsd-oberschule-feldafing-7822/

I had a good friend that had one of these in a trade from Topeka area, he had it marked "SA school bayonet" in a brown frog. It and this is the only two I have ever seen. His perished in a robbery fire in the 90"s. timothy