Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
L
Offline
L
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
A fascinating thread here and most assuredly very educational and interesting.
I have a very good understanding of what I collect but to be perfectly honest these fakes shown
could easily fool someone not experienced in the more exotic. Not many collectors get the opportunity to examine
such daggers in detail and therfore just raising awareness is extremely valuable.

I have not seen the TENO`s but these and the postal daggers are extremely convincing.

Many thanks for raising awareness!


War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
den70 #265699 06/03/2012 11:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
B
Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
The thing I first noticed was the way the RZM circle extends beyond the flat surface of the blade . Also the depth and sharp lines of the motto . Gotta say I was on the fence until Serge chimed in . As usual. Good eye Serge.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 60
D
DTS Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 60
Seems to me, these fakes are BETTER than originals, i.e., crisper details on the mfg. etchings, straighter swaz on the eagle, and more. They're almost too good.

Very, very scary.

DTS

DTS #267726 07/14/2012 10:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,079
Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,079
I am glad I caught this thread, have been away from the hobby for a while. First thing I did was check mine, TG it was in agreement with the original. Just when you get a little overconfident something like this comes along to jar your ego. I guess you have to look very carefully at every piece. I have seen several HJL repros but none this good. You don't always have a good one to compare a potential purchase to though, and at HJL prices getting stuck would hurt.


"Mountain Dew or Crab Juice?"
Homer
"God that stuff is awful. I'll have a Crab Juice!"
The Simpsons
Gator #272697 10/22/2012 03:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22
N
Offline
N
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22
Is there lists on the forum for wearers of the Hj honor dagger? I have some from original sources and would post them if interest is there?

Last edited by Nork; 10/22/2012 03:02 PM.
Nork #272699 10/22/2012 03:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 934
P
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 934
Post away, Im sure we would all be interested
Many Thanks
Paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 11
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 11
Originally Posted By: byf41@aol.com
The thing I first noticed was the way the RZM circle extends beyond the flat surface of the blade . Also the depth and sharp lines of the motto . Gotta say I was on the fence until Serge chimed in . As usual. Good eye Serge.


@ byf41: The RZM circle CAN extend (slightly) beyond the flat surface of the blade ALSO ON ORIGINAL BALDES/DAGGERS! This partially wrong (!) sign for fakes is spread since decades!!!
This CAN happen by EICKHORN (single circle RZM which also CAN be within the flat surface) and does nearly always happen by HÖRSTER (double circle RZM) daggers. At least what I could observe by the rare occasions to see an original dagger, what I have in my files and the few I do/did own.

@Nork: Never have heard of such a list, it would be highly interesting to see it!

Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
den70 #274881 12/03/2012 12:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
B
Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
Yes , I agree . What I was referring to was the way the circle on the dagger in question extends FURTHER beyond the flat than on the original .

den70 #274882 12/03/2012 12:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
B
Offline
B
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 194
Can Den70 please post a picture of the scabbard throat on the fake compared to an original ?

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 8
Online Content
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 8
Very nice comparison photos. The fakes just keep getting better wink


[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]
Visit us at www.GermanDaggers.com
Contact me at Vern@GermanDaggers.com
Vern #300580 09/13/2014 05:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Gentleman
Someone ask about the Spanish HJ Leader copies made way back when. I think this is one of them, acquired this many years ago back. It looks nice but not really comparable to a original so I don't think it will fool anyone except perhaps a beginner.
Just another one to watch for.
Thanks
Mike

2000-12-31 003 019.JPG (87.85 KB, 576 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 018.JPG (96.39 KB, 574 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 020.JPG (87.58 KB, 574 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 021.JPG (106 KB, 572 downloads)
2000-12-31 003 016.JPG (117.03 KB, 575 downloads)
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Gentleman
Just some more pic's of the Spanish HJ Leader.
Please excuse the pictures,still working with a older dig. camera.
Mike

2000-12-31 003 014.JPG (71.02 KB, 570 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 001.JPG (92.14 KB, 571 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 002.JPG (96.3 KB, 570 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 006.JPG (55.69 KB, 571 downloads)
2000-12-31 001 007.JPG (82.54 KB, 570 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Hello,
Can you confirm that this dagger HJ leader is a copy.
I buy € 1350 and I'm afraid I made a stupidity.
Thank you for your help
PS: Sorry if I did not fully complied with the procedure Forum

HJ1.JPG (103.94 KB, 510 downloads)
HJ1
HJ3.JPG (101.25 KB, 508 downloads)
HJ3
HJ4.JPG (102.12 KB, 508 downloads)
HJ4
HJ5.JPG (78.5 KB, 510 downloads)
HJ5
HJ6.JPG (82.59 KB, 506 downloads)
HJ6
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Continuation and end
Thank you in advance

HJ2.JPG (96.22 KB, 505 downloads)
HJ2
HJ7.JPG (84.57 KB, 504 downloads)
HJ7
HJ8.JPG (82.92 KB, 503 downloads)
HJ8
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 11
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 11
sanglier88, first let me also welcome you to the forum.
Concerning the HJ Leader´s dagger: Unfortunately you are right. It is one of the old fakes, artificially aged to convince. But there are a lot of features (eg. the pommel, the pommel emblem, the eagle emblem, material, etc etc) which make clear that it is a fake.
Regards,

PS.: I already did write here an answer yesterday but due to unknown reasions it did disappear..


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
wotan #305447 02/19/2015 02:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
Thank you very much for your answer.
Now I'm set.
I bought it in a shop near the Normandy landing beaches.
The vendor looked honest.
Now that I know I will learn your forum to be less naive.
Best Regards

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 435
Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 435
Has anyone got a replica HJ leader for sale?


If you want to criticise someone first walk a mile in their shoes. Then, when they come after you, you'll be a mile ahead and they'll be barefoot.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 74
Terry
I have the Spanish copy posted above, think these were mad back in the late 19560s and a fairly good job to.
It is for sale also.
Mike

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Offline
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Mr. Terry I also have a very good copy to sell

den70 #331759 09/14/2017 04:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 96
Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 96
Originally Posted By: den70
Trademark. Pay attention to the substrate and the depth of etching. With almost perfect repetition of pattern stamps, you can see the difference in the technologies of etching.

left a copy, the original right.



In addition to this type of dagger, there are various copies of that I was able to compare in the my hands of the original daggers from the collections of the U.S. and Europe.


It is very obvious the one on the left is laser etching...

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
Offline
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann)
Let's stay a bit objective here and not stigmatize any collector groups: there are many serious Russian collectors and -believe me- if they would not have been at the shows during the past years, the prices would have dropped harder and the hobby would have suffered from it.

Let's be honest: many American and European collectors were on a very tight budget during the last years...

Also, when it comes to fakers: they are not from a particular nationality... think about the first and famous Mr Atwood as an example... and guys that used to post fakes here like “3-finger-louis”…

Let me repeat that Den's contribution to the forum with this topic is very important, I wish that there were more post like this one!

Best regards,

Herman

I'm in agreement with Herman. It's posts like this one that will help collectors from becoming victims of the scammers that are out there try to pass off junk as period collectible items. FP

Your attention to the skin of the sheath! Over time, the skin on the original shell dries.As seen in the right photo. In fakes, the skin tightly adheres to the devices of the scabbard .

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
Offline
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Serge (aka Wagner)
Originally Posted by den70
Sergei, you are absolutely right. Unfortunately, these daggers appeared 6-8 years ago. Their quantity and variety of models is impressive. It's hard to trace daggers without a number to understand that their quantity. But in the case of the TENO and POST is easy.
And if Russia deal with them. So at the moment because of the crisis and other reasons, many of these fakes are sold in America and Europe. The main advocates of these items have often themselves and sell them, and their prices are lower than in America and Europe


Den, Very solid evidence you presented in a clear and simple detailed manner.- THANK YOU ! smile
I am told that these daggers are called 'Belarus daggers' because they seem to originate from Belarus. Then others say no, they are from St. Petersburg. Do you know who makes them ? Somebody must have 'talked' by now. The 55cm Henckels -you know about that one too?

I have to admit that this HJ Leader is a very good copy...but we can still tell but you need to know your 'stuff' and look very closly.

-serge-

These daggers are very well made in Poland and Lithuania. In Russia they are not produced, maybe there is no experience . But they were sold to Russia from the Soviet bloc..Then the world.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,206,101 SS Bayonets
1,702,391 Teno Insignia Set
1,071,287 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Eye candy
by Dave Fox - 09/19/2021 11:55 AM
When that SS dagger has the look!
by pvon - 09/18/2021 05:37 PM
Tinnies and misc items!
by pvon - 09/17/2021 03:47 PM
Week Off
by Gaspare - 09/17/2021 03:58 AM
FW Holler Damascus naval Kreigsmarine dagger value
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 09/15/2021 01:50 PM
Latest New Posts
When that SS dagger has the look!
by pvon - 09/19/2021 08:23 PM
Luftwaffe Sword Horster with Damascus Blade
by Billy G. - 09/19/2021 03:34 PM
What is the rarest Early SA Maker?
by Herman V. (aka Herr Mann) - 09/19/2021 03:31 PM
Eye candy
by Dave Fox - 09/19/2021 11:55 AM
Something about SA daggers that grabs you!
by Vern - 09/17/2021 06:21 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics30,878
Posts320,080
Members7,006
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
12 members (Mikee, Dave, DeCeCo, Eric26, GEKing, Sasha, Skynyrd, Vern, hdmarley, Jonesy, Billy G., pvon), 33 guests, and 68 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5