Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
I was hoping to get some opinions on this item.
I recently acquired it and while researching it I found an example on a web sight that looks identical to me. They were asking over 8000 Euro.




-Ray

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
FYI.
Below is the listing I referenced in the original post. I have no connection with the listing below, just posting because I thought it might interest the forum.
http://www.paradeantiques.co.uk/militaria/other/ww2-reichmarschall-goring-car-pennant

-Ray

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 20
M
Offline
M
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 20
IMo a total piece of fantasy junk.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
i agree with Mark,,post ww II manufacture

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
"fantasy junk" would imply that no such item existed. I believe it did exist based on photos of his car and references to it in books discussing the various versions. I am not making any claims on this particular example, but would be interested in how it compares to any known original examples. I have several photo copied pages from books that were found with it, but I don't have the names of the books to credit, so I don't want to post those without crediting the books properly.
-Ray

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
Ray..On cloth stuff we need close up photos of the stitching. My question is if its a car standard how is it held onto the pole.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
My bad it says its printed on? I would think someone of Goring statue would have a bullion type pennent.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: Earl (Rick) Schreiber
My bad it says its printed on? I would think someone of Goring statue would have a bullion type pennent.

My first impression was the same. However, the description I have from a book only mentions the stitched edges. Also, I have now found two examples from established dealers which are printed and being offered as original. I have found none offered as reproductions. Again, I am not making any claims on this piece, but I would like to see a known original that is different before I assume the dealers offering these as original are wrong.
Another example:
http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/0810f1.html
http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/german_flags.html

-Ray

Last edited by wwiifirearms.com; 11/30/2011 02:51 PM.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Some years before creating his LW car standard, Herman Goring received a special standard in his capacity as Minister President of the State of Prussia to which he was appointed on April 10, 1933. A special design was created for his position in which he served until April 24, 1945. This design incorporated the new Nazi style Prussian eagle with sword, lightening bolts and swastika on its chest on a white field surrounded by an edging of black triangles. You can see his personal standard behind him here in this picture as he addressed a group of men.



A special car standard was created for him by decree on October 18, 1933 using this same design that resulted in this official car pennant. The decree included a drawing of this distinct design, the size ratio and mentions the silver pattern edging.



Unfortunately this example had been removed from its protective case and split in half.(sharing with a combat partner?) Here is a Bundesarchive photo of Minister President Goring dated January 1934 in his official Mercedes, but unfortunately, the fender is just out of view.



Last edited by JoeW; 11/30/2011 11:44 PM.

"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
Not the best pic, but this is a different version.
-Ray

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
That eagle is from the Feldjagerkorps from the SA/ police.Goring was Supreme SA leader in Prussia.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Rick, let me assure you that the eagle on the car flag that I showed above was first the newly designed crest of the State of Prussia. That occurred earlier in 1933. The Nazified Prussian Eagle design was used on their flags, ink stamps, police emblems and car pennants. The police emblems included the metal stars used on the parade cartridge boxes and newly designed police bayonet devices. This new Prussian insignia was also adopted by the newly created Feldjagerkorps.


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
I stand corrected Joe. I just know it was used by the feldjagerkorp, didnt realise it was also used by the prussian state.

Last edited by Earl (Rick) Schreiber; 12/01/2011 03:48 AM.

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
Joe...That car Pennent is stitched isnt it? Thats more like i would have expected.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
I believe this was the same one that popped up on another forum 6/8 months ago. no one there thought it was good.
looks like there is NO swastikas on the small eagles (on the batons). some other design flaws possible.
I believe a printed one was show in some books. might want to find the thread on w.a.f. to at least see if the photos match.
jeff

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
Rick, yes the entire flag design is machine chain stitched except for the silver bullion tress edging. I surmise the vet split the flag, it being made of two complete sides. I have a III Reich police flag with bullion eagle that was similarly split.

Below is a police newspaper report of the newly designed Prussian State Crest incorporating the eagle.



Being associated with the Minister President of Prussia and the Prussian police, it was natural that the FJK also adopted this Prussian crest (Landeswappen).


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 486
Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 486
I did see a real one come out of the woodwork back in 1974 or so in Bloomington, Indiana with plexiglass (?) cover and pole mount. The guy traded three .22 rifles for it! shocked I was offered it, but I could not come up with the $1000.00 asking price. cry Man, did the patrons at Sambo's do a double take when he pulled it out of that grocery bag. I lost track of the seller, but I believe he sold it to a collector in Anderson, Indiana. Wish I'd have been rich then---and now.

Steve Z.


A day without beer is just another day you have to remember.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,174
Likes: 290
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,174
Likes: 290
They were totally embroidered..

Here are crappy, small photos of a dear old departed friends example.
His was stored in between plates of Plexiglas which is not the right way.

DSCN5919.JPG (95.55 KB, 127 downloads)
DSCN5920.JPG (67.05 KB, 125 downloads)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: Steve Z.
I did see a real one come out of the woodwork back in 1974 or so in Bloomington, Indiana with plexiglass (?) cover and pole mount. The guy traded three .22 rifles for it! shocked I was offered it, but I could not come up with the $1000.00 asking price. cry Man, did the patrons at Sambo's do a double take when he pulled it out of that grocery bag. I lost track of the seller, but I believe he sold it to a collector in Anderson, Indiana. Wish I'd have been rich then---and now.

Steve Z.


Interesting. Do you happen to recall if the one you saw was printed(silk screened) or embroidered?
Mine also came in a frame in plexiglass on a pole. If I get a chance I'll post pics of the frame and pole later today.
-wwiifirearms

Last edited by wwiifirearms.com; 02/12/2012 06:43 PM.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
Pic of frame and pole.

-wwiifirearms

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 31
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 31
just for interest, there is currently offered one (perhaps the one shown by gaspare because it is also between plexiglass) at Weitze. Has provenience material with it.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
W
OP Offline
W
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: wotan
just for interest, there is currently offered one (perhaps the one shown by gaspare because it is also between plexiglass) at Weitze. Has provenience material with it.
Regards,

The example Weitze has is a full size standard(95cm x 95cm). The other embroidered example mentioned may also have been one of these large standards. All of the smaller "automobile size" examples I have been able to find online are printed.
Link to Weitze example: https://www.weitze.net/detail/70/Reichsm...__177370_e.html

-wwiifirearms

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,174
Likes: 290
G
Offline
G
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,174
Likes: 290
The one is in an old collection for many years. Family has it now. All embroidered,,maybe for sale one day.. Pretty sure it is an exact match as the one in the big War Booty book [T.Johnson]

The Weitze example,,,well, take a look at the workmanship on the baton handle ends! That tells the whole story..That is for the Reichsmarschall G�ring?!?

177370_4.jpg (42.1 KB, 103 downloads)
DSCN5919.JPG (37.01 KB, 102 downloads)
DSCN5920.JPG (28.54 KB, 101 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 31
Offline
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,025
Likes: 31
Originally Posted By: Gaspare

The Weitze example,,,well, take a look at the workmanship on the baton handle ends! That tells the whole story..That is for the Reichsmarschall G�ring?!?


wink

Last edited by wotan; 02/20/2012 01:54 PM.

wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,268,206 SS Bayonets
1,765,105 Teno Insignia Set
1,134,427 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
EK 2 Round 3
by Dutchman - 05/20/2024 11:45 PM
Can you determine authenticity of SS dagger?
by AnatoliyD - 05/17/2024 04:22 PM
SS dagger KM7/91
by zwoerf - 05/17/2024 06:56 AM
My first bayonet
by Cameron - 05/16/2024 03:33 PM
How do flotation tubs differ from traditional bathtubs?
by Aquant Seo - 05/16/2024 11:25 AM
Latest New Posts
Can you determine authenticity of SS dagger?
by AnatoliyD - 05/22/2024 06:33 AM
Obviously rare portepee
by Mikee - 05/22/2024 12:04 AM
nsdap
by Gaspare - 05/21/2024 11:57 PM
Rings & Things for the MAX
by Gaspare - 05/21/2024 02:55 PM
My first bayonet
by Cameron - 05/21/2024 11:54 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,685
Posts329,302
Members7,539
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
9 members (Stephen, Ilya, Evgeniy, Feodor, AnatoliyD, BretVanSant, Honestmike, Miroslav, R.K-N.), 111 guests, and 188 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5