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Hi Guys, As the hungarian dagger market has became more of a minefield than anything else I thought I will verify this Brannik blade with the forum members. From my pespective it looks decent and WWII period. On the blade is writen"Duty and Honor" in Bulgarian. This dagger has been produced for only 3 years from 1941-1944,when Brannik was dismissed.

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The first question is the emblem. It seams to be inserted. I have also seen a silver - not gold emblem on other auctions as well as the fact that it has the red background. Is it correct?

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the second doubt is the blade - although I like the maker mark should it not be a bit more wider in the central part?

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Finally the scabbard back side. What do you think guys??

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While no expert on these youth knives, I can tell you the motto, makers mark and blade are correct. I see the grip plates have not been messed with and I know that the grip inserts are in fact inserted in the grip plates in the originals as is this one. However, I can not speak to this specific insert being original because I have nothing in hand to compare it with.

Hopefully, the other members can comment on the scabbard. The scabbard looks correct to me, but again, I have little knowledge on these youth knives.

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Here is my "Brannik". I have shown it long time ago and there Ron Weinand has classified it as "original".
The emblem is significant different. My exemplare has a leightweight grip (yours do look to me more like an iron one).
Blade etching on your speciman looks ok. Perhaps yours is simply an obviously very hard worn one with an added (gone to time) emblem?
Regards,

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wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Wotan can we assume the finger guard in Overlords example has simply broken off over time, then been filed smooth?

Paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
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Hello Paul, yes, I think so.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

"Never look for sqare eggs" as a late owner of an original FHH-dagger used to say.
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I found another one submited by pesho to a separate forum here. I post for reference but seams like there is a third pattern of the emblem. Were there more than 1 pattern than?

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The emblem on Wotan's dagger and the Pesho dagger look the same to me, only in different condition.

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Guys ask Paul if I remember he had one for sale lately.Ted

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Like Wotans mine had an aluminum hilt. The etching was thicker and the emblem different. The rivets were also aluminum. I do not consider myself to be an expert on them. I hope my pictures help.

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Sorry for the late respond in the topic.
These knives are very rare. Brannik organization was small pro Nazis organization. They had their own uniforms and rangs.
When the communist regime came on power all Brannik members were in persuit of communists and many of them have exterminated the knives, photos and other evidence for their membership in Brannik organization. Many knives have been modified � the grip emblem has been taken out and engraving on the blade has been deleted.
Many other knives have been confiscated and destroyed by the communist.
For the knife shown by Overlord:
The buckle is original , but the belt not - I suppose that is from Army uniform.
As Paul mentioned already finger guard has been broken.
The grip emblem in fact is Brannik badge, which some body inserted on this knife.
The blade is original, but unfortunately has been sharpened.
The inscription in Bulgarian language means Duty and honor.
On the reverse is Bulgarian master�s mark.

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OverLord Brannik and Boy scout were different organizations.
On top is Bulgarian Boy scout knife. The both knives a similar and have only different grip emblems.

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I would like to share with you one extremely rare Brannik knife from my collection.
I have seen only 3 pieces,unfortunately all were with out grip emblems.
The knife is smaller that others and has brown painted scabbard.
There are two suppositions:
- these daggers have been designed for Brannik girls or
- these daggers have been designed for Brannik members aged 12- 14 years old.
Due to the fact that I couldn�t succeed in finding any documents for Brannik organization from this period I don�t know the truth. I�m afraid that all documents have been destroyed.

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Revers

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Intrestingly this is a Solingen Klaas production... Maybe the manufacturer has some info on them in their factory catalogue?

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I'm concerned, and this is the problem that I'm having with a whole class of these knives inasmuch as there are a (relatively) lot more of them in circulation now than there were years ago. With a number seen in as new or near new condition. Aluminum hilted ? And it seems now that an etched (sometimes lightly) logo version has been added to some previously seen stamped ones from a German maker with non-aluminuim hilts. With Bulgaria at that time a poorer more agrarian nation, with not much of an industrial infrastructure, that was using arms of the type of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire/other sourced (Mannlichers etc.) and joining the Axis powers on March 1st, 1941 (having reasonably friendly relations with Germany before then). But not going along as a participant with the attack on Russia. With the vast bulk of German HJ knives coming from the lengthy occupation of the country at the end or postwar. And how many eligible youths (only "Brannick", not other groups) were there in Bulgaria before the war (ie: Bulgaria's involvement)? That would have been entitled to buy one of these knives, much less have been able to afford one (as compared to Germany's Hitler Youth)?? With even in Germany no more civilian production (ie: series production of non-Wehrmacht contracts) as of early in 1942. Fred

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I HAVE FOUND MY BOX OF BRANNIKS . THE SMALL ONE AND RED DIAMOND ONE BOUGHT MANY YEARS AGO FROM AG MILITARY .RECENTLY BOUGHT THE OTHER TWO OUT OF A LONG TERM COLLECTION.
RARE ITEMS.
DIPPY

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Rare knives.

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Diplo matt unfortunately only one of yours Brannik knives has a proper grip emblem.
The both knives in the middle had a Brannk badge inserted on the grips.
Robert Klaas knife should has different grip emblem.

Last edited by pesho; 01/26/2013 02:32 PM.
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mmmm the klass you have only seen 3 before all without grip emblem,you dont have any documents and it is wrong.wow explain that one lol
heres an interesting thread http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthread...true#Post265478
(maybe not so) dippy

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Dear diplo matt,
Yes it's true that all Klass which I have seen were without grip emblems, but I have seen Kurt Glemser's book too.If you have it, please have a look and you will see how the original grip emblem looks like.

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I assume you are refering to volume four page 206 to 208. I still ask the question how come mine is in very good condition and definately un messed with and that one has obviously been round the block and stands more chance of having its badge changed, mine is also a matching pair to the larger one on page 208 unlike the small klass next to it.Or i have heard theories very recently that nobody really knows due to lack of photos or documentation maybe even different areas had different badges after all no rzm standard here.So as i have the best condition one that matches its big brother i propose mine obviously closest to manufacture made the one i own is correct.lol
dippy the doubter

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Last edited by diplo matt; 01/26/2013 06:25 PM.
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While I'm certainly no expert in Bulgarian history, my interest originated first with the rifles which were not commonly found in the U.S. With my understanding being that when the country changed governments (1944), and actively fought alongside the Soviet Union there was a "house cleaning" (to use an expression) consisting of prison, executions, etc. of what was deemed to be monarchist - fascist leaning. With what I found of interest but don't have a way of confirming, was that under the old regime there were three movements: The National Legion Alliance, the Bulgarian students' organization, and the Brannick (that were high-school students(?). Which altogether totaled 60,000 members? Fred

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The both knives have different shape of the place where the grip emblem is inserted.
Can you see the small bulge? You can�t insert a flat emblem.

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Well i give in the only one we can see in real life is mine but sherlock is trying to prove his without an emblem is real and mine with it is wrong.Back to the pub for me.
tipsy dippy

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Mate,
In my country this lot costs less than one beer in London pub.
There are companies offering manufacture and professional assembly and many dealers used their service.
What do you think, what is your supposition, why main and other 3 Klaas knives in Bulgaria are sill without grip emblems?

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We appear to have a situation here similar to the de nazified Hitler Youth daggers where new insets are being manufactured.
I know these grip inserts have been offered by at least one major dealer.
this is always an unfortunate developement.

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Originally Posted By: Jim W
We appear to have a situation here similar to the de nazified Hitler Youth daggers where new insets are being manufactured.
I know these grip inserts have been offered by at least one major dealer.
this is always an unfortunate developement.

It's a very interesting development. And something else that was not lost on me was what I think pesho was trying to describe as a relief cut for an emblem (if I'm interpreting the image correctly). Or for that matter, that the knives with the Bulgarian Boy Scout and the Brannick emblems have what looks like the the same blade logo. Recess in the grip for an emblem, with matching refections in the images for the hilt and rivet material (so I'm assuming that they are the same type of metal). Fred

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Im getting a bit lost with all of this .I really like all of my brannik knives and trust the sources they come from and the timeframe when first purchased many moons ago. I may have got this wrong but are you telling me dont trust any items coming out of bulgaria as they are easy to reproduce and are.
dippy

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dipl matt,
I would never say "don't trust any items" coming out of any country, let alone Bulgaria.
Dressed up and modified pieces come from everywhere.

The problem is that these practices cast doubt upon all originals and when there is not that much documented or known about them, it is easy for a forger to "replace" an emblem and get away with it..

I have originals from Hungary, Italy, Germany, all devalued because of copies, often factory reproductions. It is an unfortunate part of collecting.

The posters here are not "down" on Bulgaria, simply speaking the truth, about some items offered for sale these days.

Jim

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ALL of the original Branniks that I know of that have came directly from US veterans had been in super condition and have the name STOCKO on the back of the female part of the leather snap button. The fakes I have encountered do not.
Also, for me, the class is still out on the smaller version as I KNOW Klaas DID produce these post war in nickel silver and aluminum, but are slightly different from Third Reich productiuon Ron


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Irrespective of any leftover supplies that were still in existence in Germany and for how long - from my perspective the STOCKO snap fasteners might not be as much of a �litmus test� for the knives in question. Remembering from another discussion on one of the forums a while back, where a German participant stated that the company did not go out of business after the war and was still in operation (a link is posted below). With the matching type of logo on the Boy Scout knife blade, and some of the 'Brannick' knives probably of more interest. But unfortunately not being able to interpret the markings, I don�t know what company that is, or its "core" (primary) business. But it seems to be clear that the knives were made in Germany. With aluminum a very popular postwar material for hilts (which it still is decades later with the many examples of fake �TR� themed knives that have been created for the �collector market�). Fred

Stocko Fastners GmbH


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I never contended that Diplo matt�s knives are fake.The knives are original, I only express my modest opinion that some grips emblem are not correct for these knives.

Well in the next couple of day I�l try with my horrible colonial English to give some further information.

Small inrtuduction, before to make comparison of these knife.

Scout organization established in Bulgaria back in 1911 by Zhekov N. General, Commander of the First Infantry Regiment.
In the second half of 1924, the organization of "young Bulgarian intelligence" is recognized and accepted as a full member of the World Bureau of the Boy Scouts based in London
By 1926, the High Committee reported membership of 6,147 scouts.
Beginning of october 1926 Boyscouts and eight other organizations ("wolf" Bulgarian Cycling Union, hunting organization, conspiracy Sea etc..) established the Confederation for Physical Education.

On 29th December 1940 Twenty-fifth Bulgarian Ordinary National Assembly passed a law to organize the Bulgarian youth in the state organization - "Brannik."

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In 1941 Brannik ogranization had approximately 40 000 members
They had own by-laws, uniforms, ranks etc.

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