UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum SS Rune Identification

In a thread a week or two ago, I stated that I did not believe that an early SS dagger can be accepted or rejected solely on the characteristics of the SS Runes button. My reasoning is that they were supplier items and varied in small detail by manufacturer or maybe even batch.

But I recognize that many members here feel that they CAN identify the dagger by the runes button.

To allow them to prove it, I will post 20 SS runes buttons. Each is from an early, maker marked SS dagger. I own some and photographed others. Some makers are represented twice.

Good Luck

Dave

Here is #1 - Bertram

#2 - Jacobs

3 - Boker Ground Rohm

4 Hammesfahr

5 - RA Herder

6 Klass

7 - EP&S

8 - Eickhorn

9 - Boker non Rohm

10

10 Puma

11 - Kober

12 -Bertram

13 - ASSO

14 - Eickhorn Himmler

15a - Klitermann & Moog

16 - Jacobs

17 - Boker non-Rohn

18 - F.Herder

19 - Gembruch

20 - Klass

I really love all the learning to be done here,awesome!!!!!

Dave. thank you for doing this !! 1) shows no one is an expert. 2)shows that nothing is text book.
I agree some items / parts were made by that company or a specific supplier.
it's like seeing posted photos or heer or luftwaffe daggers get picked apart ,because it's not text book. YET, the book(s) sighted only cover half or 1/3 of the total companies that made that item

I will not take this challenge , as I know better.
plus we all know SS daggers were under contracts year to year.
no one knew if next year they would get a contract , so why buy 1 million rune devices for this years' 5,000 dagger contract ?

also ,these "expert" books do show companies buying parts from each other from time to time.
Again thanks dave. jeff

you're right ,dave.

it's hard to judge or simply impossible.

But a challenge
Thanks for "playing",

Gerd

hey Dave , you're having a lot of fun with this , ain't you ??

but later on down the road you , with others will have to re do this & add to it as a reference guide.
"Possibilities of runes " per maker.
but as you are proving , nothing is ever pure textbook (I hate that word).

Andrew ? Kreta ? any more guesses ?

I say "guesses" because that is what they really are. I think that by now you are seeing that identifying SS daggers by the variation of the rune button is very difficult or impossible.

I'll name them all in a few days.

Dave

Anyway, this has run far enough. I would like to turn this into a reference thread so here is what I am thinking of doing:

1. Add the names to all the pictures I posted.

2. Remove most of the guesses and comments on the last three pages. Mostly water over the dam anyway

3. Ask members to add pictures of THEIR SS runes

Since this involves removing posts, I want to make certain that no one objects. What say you ?

Dave

Points #1 & #2 accomplished. Names in red were identified correctly by members. Names in green were not so I supplied them.

Now, if you care to add your own shots we can add to the reference.

Thanks to all who participated.

Dave

Got Runes ??

Dave

dave , are you looking for others to give you rune photos of their daggers ; to add to this quiz ??
just asking. jeff

Jeff,

Members can add a rune button or more with the correct name or they can stick one or two up there to challenge us more

Dave

Fantastic thank you!!!

Here is another one

Hello Everyone, Im new here as of today and I hope icame to the right website..I own a ss german Dagger and was hoping someone could help me out and tell me what they know about it.

Ok guys here's a SS Dagger of mine, tell me the maker .. Hint.. It's a ground Rohm.. Regards , Jeff

Surge, take some photos and start a discussion thread on this forum. You came to the right place. These guys know SS daggers.

Hmm,
Klaas or Herder?

Regards,
Gerd

Yep u got it ... Rich Herder ...

Awesome post Dave! With your permission can I use this information on a dagger page (that I manage) that I have on Facebook? If so I will quote the source (Like I always do).

I will add a pic of my dagger's SS runes a bit later.

Thx,

Gerry

Did any SS manufacturer attach the SS button ruins slanted more towards the left instead of perfectly vertical?

Johnny R.

No.

I suspect that the way it was to be done is to position the button so that they looked as they do on collar patches and flags. Some ended up that way and others at more or less of an angle.

It never ceases to amaze me how many variations of this SS button there are (i.e. size. shape and positioning). Especially due to the fact that the Germans are extremely addicted to specific standards of grading/control.

Johnny R.

I've notice from research the the SS button ruins were dramatically slanted to the left from the "Rich.Abr.Herder" SS dagger manufacturer only.

Johnny R.

How about quantifying your research and posting a few pictures?

Dave

I'd love to Dave but the attachment selection is not working for me for some reason? Nor will the site alert me when a new post is summited on the tread i'm followning

OK, here is the image. I finally figured out how to attached on this forum. You know these forums are all a little different on their button/link locations.

I would like to credit the resource reference book that this image came from but have lost the original souse.

Also does anyone know how to switch from UBBCode to HTML

Johnny R.

Johnny,

Those two - Herder and Klass - are not slanted to the left. That is just the angle from which the photo was taken. They are all pretty much at the same angle.

Dave

I've seen period Herder SS daggers and yes the button does (for some reason) slant toward the left. This is the only period SS dagger from that one single manufacturer that I've even seen that had that particular slant.

Could be some kind of a variant? Who knows why?

Do you have some pictures?

Does anyone else have pictures of herder runes?

Here is a SS stick pin that has the left slant to it. Still checking on a Herder image of the button.

http://www.germanwarbooty.com/item-medals01/medals%20m4860.htm

Johnny R.

We're talking about dagger rune buttons

Still looking for a Herder dagger image

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/36715.htm

Not a Herder, but shows SS Button variant slant.

What manufacturer made that dagger?

It would be really interesting if your opening statement was true:

"I've notice from research the the SS button ruins were dramatically slanted to the left from the "Rich.Abr.Herder" SS dagger manufacturer only."

Merry Christmas,
Dave

I own two herders. Both have straight runes. Here is one.

I don't think any maker was pre-disposed to any type of special runic angle. I think over time some may have turned from being dinged or wood changing or were just put in at a bit of an angle. But nothing intentional. Just my opinion.

Hope all is well dave!-Raymond, Esquire.

I agree, Esquire.

I think the workers were told to instal the button so the runes looked like they did on flags. Same with the SA. Some ended up at slightly different angles as they were pressed into the circular recess.

I don't believe that they were just dropped into the recess. I think a good amount of pressure was used to seat them. Except for a badly cracked grip, I have never an SA or SS with a loose or rotatable rune button.

Has anyone else seen one?

I thought Tom Wittmann said it was due to the wood expanding and contracting as well.

I guess you're right Dave.
Here is a shot of another R.A. Herder
Regards,
Gerd