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Dean,

Legend has it Hubertus, born in the seventh century, seeks comfort and distraction on lonely hunts after the death of his beloved wife during childbirth, Princess Floribana. One Christmas Eve on one of these hunts he encounters the wondrous figure of a splendid albino stag carrying a mysterious, shining cross between its antlers. The marvelous creature speaks to him and explains the rudiments of proper animal conservation and hunting practice. After this vision, Hubert is moved to transform his life. He abandons his high ranks of office and distributes his wealth among the poor and the church.

St. Hubertus has been the patron saint of hunters and animal-protectionist organizations (Tierschutzvereine) in northern Europe, who honor him by sharing their feasts with local towns people, hold charity fund-raising festivals and events and are responsible for the care of animals on their collective lands, both domestic and wild.

When a buck was hunted and killed, hunters through the ages have placed a small sprig of evergreen, or if none is available, oak, in the mouth of the fallen game. This is done as an offering of the 'last bite,' a final tribute to the animal, symbolically giving back to God the soul which we receive from Him.

If food was scarce in the winter, Hubert would go out to the forest to provide sustenance for the animals. He and his valued, loyal hunting dogs often went to the forest not to hunt, but only to be part of and observe the true splendor of nature. Through honoring the forest's creatures, he thereby also honored the creator.

When the National Socialists came to power in 1933, all types of social groups, clubs and old established organizations were all called to order and re-organized under new Nazi laws, called 'gleichschaltung.' This literally means 'getting in step' or, 'everyone on the same page,' under NS umbrella-organizations. So the old hunter's emblem of the St. Hubertus stag's head or in their case skull, became the symbol for the Deutsche Jägerschaft, also known by the initials, "DJ." (German Hunting Organization) Naturally, their familiar corporate-logo of the swastika was used in as many new club logo-designs as possible, hence, the swastika replaced the old Christian cross between the deer's antlers.

Hitler was quite a shrewd operator, I wonder how far in advance he had all these little details figured out?

Hope this might explain the symbol somewhat better and I'm glad you liked the graphics too. wink

Best!

B~

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WWII-
That was extremely informative and interesting.I'm really glad I asked and received that info.Great stuff.

Thanks for the continuing education on these small details that sometimes have significant meaning.


As far as wondering how long Hitler had these ideas or concepts mapped out,thats a excellent question.
My guess/opinion would be it was far before the 3rd Reich even began especially if Kubizek's accounts of their early friendship are believed.

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Thanks Dean,

I'm glad to explain things for those who might share our interests, that is, if I sometimes can, heh ... grin

Here's a great collection of various and rare pins, medallions and awards that all sport a St. Hubertus and/or deer-head motif of some kind. These range in time-frame from the turn-of-the-century until 1945. I think there's only one post-'45 piece in the whole lot and that one's a beauty! - quite amazing. And plenty of very hard to find A.D.J.V. examples, too! These Allgemeine Deutsche Jagdschutz Verein hat-badges are really tough to score. I've been working on mounting these very fine decorations and prizes into a cased display to hang on the wall, for our old amigo, Gary Southgate. Gracias for sharing, good sir!

Hope some of you guys might enjoy these ... they don't come much better.

Best!

Bill

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ooops, forgot that one dang moose in there, ha!

W~

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Bill, as always, thank you for providing insight into the historic and cultural underpinnings of these beautiful works of art and design. Those stag and deer images are absolutely stunning.

Interesting to note that on the Nazi badges the 'shadow' of the original Cross image is still hinted at in the way the rays of light disperse from behind the swastika.

T.

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Mr. T,

My pleasure, to be sure! wink Hope you're well and ready for a good holiday? Anything new for the porcelain thread? grin
Hope so ...

Best!

B~

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Those badges rank as some of my favourites, I have a prime spot picked out for this display, thanks for the peak Bill.

SfK

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Originally Posted By: WWII
Mr. T,

My pleasure, to be sure! wink Hope you're well and ready for a good holiday? Anything new for the porcelain thread? grin
Hope so ...

Best!

B~



"Mr. T", Hah! Alas, I fear I am nowhere near as brawny as B. A. Baracus from the A-Team.

No set plans for the weekend yet - though a barbecue at my cousin's place is likely.

I haven't really purchased anything recently that would be in the spirit of the Imperial Allach thread. I have acquired a few new equines, but they're not of the appropriate time period, style, and/or country of origin to merit posting here.

What of your own porcelain purchasing, Mr. W? Anything new for you lately?

T.

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Tiberius,

Other than the Meissen colt and some WHW pieces for my grandsons it's been fairly quiet. Oh, almost forgot, heh..
a nice Bavarian club badge with a blue/white rosette. grin

Found this image of a fair-size 'wine stash.' Reminds me of the milk slogan, "... got wine?" wink

Best!

B~

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Bill,

Their's a very good story related to this. That's an actual place, been there many many times! Brings back some very nice memories! Thanks!

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Hamburg card posted in 1912.

I like the way a lot of these peace time (I think) cards have a military/national might theme going.
So cool how political correctness as it exist today was almost not to be worried about.

The back has a neat looking symbol that I'd like to know about if possible.Thanks

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Hey hi Dean,

In old Schwabacher, the letters look like DHV, stands for Deutschnationalen Handlungshilfe Verbandes, see this. Lots about this to say but much is in here. Lovely nationalistic Bismarck quote, supercard!

Bye,
KR


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Right on Krullies.Thats their symbol alright.
I would of never figured on the middle letter being a H.
Thank you for your help and the great link.
Interesting for sure.

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Karin,

Good detective work! wink I didn't have a clue as to what this one was ... confused

Dean, another great illustration, thanks!

Bill

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Youre always welcome Dean and William Glad I could help.


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Bill, I missed Gary's case of pins back one page. Outstanding.

Dean, strong imagery to the postcard. Very nice.

K, sharp eyes, as always. Here is a link to another example.
http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Medals/Medals/m508.htm

--dj--Joe

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Joe HI!!!! I love your smiley!!! Ahum, anyways, supernice pin that, surely! Did you buy it?? DHV was connected to Gesamtverband deutscher Angestelltengewerkschaften, just like RDGF (Reichsverband Deutscher Guts und Forstbeamten) and that has not so much to do with DHV obvioulsy, but indirectly maybe, and, it has the awesomest pin ever, look!



I saw some DHV things, since this pin was posted here, and, if you wanna dig into this, you can find much nice info here (look at that wicked cover! click while its still up!!) and here (also nicecover!).

I found some pin-types lately, maybe anyone wants to see? None of those are mine, but, here goes;















So, DHV, a Trade Union that represented the social and economic interests of workers. Founded in 1893 in Hamburg, named "Deutscher Handlungsgehülfen-Verband" but was renamed to "Deutschnationaler Handlungsgehilfen-Verband", in January 1896. Women and jews were not allowed to join the DHV! One of the goals of DHV was to reduce women's work!! In 1930 DHV had more than 400000 members. And ofcourse, after 1933, Hitler abolished\forbid DHV, and later also NSBO in 1935 and DAF was the only organisation for workers left. Interesting, no?

Bye,
KR


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Hello K .

The only DHV example I own has one of those crooked crosses on it. eek
The Reichsverband Deutscher Guts und Forstbeamten pin you show is a stunner. Very nice looking piece. I'll have to see what I can learn about it.

I enjoyed seeing the older looking DHV pins also.

Glad you still like smilies.

--dj--Joe

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Originally Posted By: derjager
Hello K .
..
Glad you still like smilies..


Can't go without! A DHV with swaz, must be rare? Its like this then?



Taken from some auction somewhere, so not mine again. But its getting an interesting subject to look for .. YES the RDGF is totally awesome, if you find out anything, please let us know? I cant find anything anywhere, but the Wolfsangel, makes this very very yummy! Will keep looking, if I find something Ill send it to you, so you can maybe make a new topic? But first, we must find, obviously ..

Bye,
KR


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Dean, Karin and Joe,

It's amazing where some of these things will take the serious collector. Talk about one thing leading to another.

K - you really now how to research things. Sincere thanks for constantly sharing your wonderful finds with us! wink

Joe - Yes, there are some really fine pieces in Gary's case.
Should I pop that photo into your forum somewhere for discussion? I'm sure many will never see them in this thread ... grin

Thanks to all of you and best regards!

W~

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Originally Posted By: WWII


Joe - Yes, there are some really fine pieces in Gary's case.
Should I pop that photo into your forum somewhere for discussion? I'm sure many will never see them in this thread ... grin

W~



Yes sir, pop away. smile

--dj--Joe


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Please yes William, theres also one little one triangle, with a Wolfsangel in there, can you also show that more close maybe? Please??


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This one never showed up and seems to be lost in the mail.
A lot of problems with lost mail lately due to uncaring carriers but what can you do?
Get your money back.. maybe, but that doesn't fix the problem or get the item back.Sucks.

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Posted in August 1916, Saarbrücken card with a few paragraphs of small german text printed on back describing the characters and situation.

The flaming ball(??) has lettering under it that looks like (SEPAJEW)??
Google translate didn't help or I'm way off on the lettering.

Also, the document being held reads Dreibund Vertag.

Evil and snakes pouring out from the smoke of the burning city but looks like St. Micheal is there to clean up the mess and maybe Bismark too.

Wild but not at all surprising how most governments use religion for their agendas.

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Hi Dean!! BRILIANT!! Dreibund Vertrag, was the pact between the German empire, Austria that then included ungary too, and kingdom of Italy. It was sealed in 1882. Actauly, Italy joined a Zweibund, "pact of 2", of Germany and Austria, that was sealed in 1879. The pact was a defensepact between the countries. The french agresiveness and french warmaking made this very needed for the 3 countries. So yes Bismarck surely is there!! He made the Zweibund and Dreibund. But he was resigned from foreign duties in 1890.

The little text "die Anstifer des ..", means, the instigator of the world war on trial, or, in court, before the judge, to be judged, whatever, where Weltgericht literary means court of the world, or, worldcourt, possibly also judgement day. The ball of fire, above it the archangel Micheal, with a sword, pointed in the direction of the guilty.

The "SERAJEW" or whatever you see? I ~~think!~~ that is something like Sarajevo? Maybe old German or Latin? The murder of Fransz Ferdinand there, they saw as cause for the war! The city you see, must be that.

On the left, you see Austrian kaiser Joseph, German kaiser Wilhelm II, in front of them ofcourse obvious Germania. Right you see Russia zar Alexander, France with the 3-color hat, Marianne, and Italy the king below, also Belgium, Servia. Dark angry clouds over the allieds, for hate, lies, treason .. The letters

Now, Italy, YES, part of Dreibund, but Italy caused the colapseof the pact. Take any historybook and read that Italy was on allied side in the war.

Anyhow, supercard again! Thanks for showing

Bye,
KR


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Dean & Karin,

Thanks for posting and thanks for the tiptop explanation!

I'm glad that we have such generous people who continue making contributions to this interesting and ongoing thread. wink

Three cheers !!!

Bill

D - any luck with the lost card yet?

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Thanks and credit goes to you Bill for fostering interest and bringing out the best in everyone through kind comments and great insight.Quite the way to live life imo.

Krullies, I want to thank you for the great contributions you made here. I feel fortunate to have both your and Bill's combined wisdom to help with what I know very little about.

Great people for sure.

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Dear Sirs The feelin is mutual .. A pleasure to discuss in here, I love the art\cards! Thanks very much for sharing them.


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Friends,

Found the colors and subject-matter interesting on this old postcard - The third large gathering of scientific-naturalists at Fürth, 1913. A great but over-simplified image of the strange batfish, a lovely, gentle saltwater aquarium fish.

Best!

B~

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Bill I must agree! on all counts!I have had one at one time and I must say A True Joy to watch in the aquarium,

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Very very lovely William, silkscreened maybe? The IRIS still exists, did you know?

Bye,
KR


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Karin,

Yes, a good illustration of this handsome little critter. I think a little bit too early for a European silkscreen print.
I'd say it started out as a woodcut or other engraved printing technique to cover those bigger solid areas.

Thanks for the link to the club, if I lived near Fürth I'd probably join! grin Have you looked up any additional photos of batfish? They look like aquatic aliens and are prone to having heart attacks if things get too hectic in their environment, no kidding ... wink

Geoff, did you have a juvenile or adult fish? The color patterns on some of them are rather psychedelic. What kind of fish did you keep yours with?

Best!

W~

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Hey Bill,My little alien was about 5" from wingtip to wingtip.He lived with me for about 2 years in a 75 gallon show reef tank.with a pair of Mandarin fish a cleaner shrimp and a few Fire fish.Unfortunately I had to sell my tank to help with my fathers Estate.Definately the most laid back fish I ever had.

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Hi William,

Quote:
..I think a little bit too early for a European silkscreen print....


Yes, youre right, sorry, first silkscreen, in the UK, some 4 years later .. thanks!

Quote:
...Have you looked up any additional photos of batfish?..


I saw a few shots yes, beautiful BIG fish!! I thought, the fish on your card, was a discus? And look, a stamp exists too.

Bye,
KR


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Originally Posted By: Krullies
....just like RDGF (Reichsverband Deutscher Guts und Forstbeamten) and that has not so much to do with DHV obvioulsy, but indirectly maybe, and, it has the awesomest pin ever, look!


...



Well, this needs correcting .. that pin there, is not RDGF (Reichsverband Deutscher Guts und Forstbeamten), but, it says RDSF!! The RDSF is surely NOT the Reichsverband Deutscher Guts und Forstbeamten, I was way wrong, its something else!! From 1933 to august 1934 known as RDS, or, Reichsverband Deutscher Sportangler e.V. and after august 1934, known as RDSF, the Reichsverband Deutscher Sportfischer e.V..



The Reichsverband, was formed from the Arbeiter-Angler-Bundes Deutschlands (AABD), in 1933, on july 1. The year National Socialism came to power. NSDAP wanted less organisations, they used the AABD to be the only organisation for fischermen. Before 1933, there were more fishermen organisations, like Deutschen Angler Bund and Arbeitsgemeinschaft deutscher Anglerbünde and many smaller local groups like Fischerbund Noris and Angelsportverein Oberroden.

The RDSF, still exists now as VDSF, Verband Deutscher Sportfischer. And, that still has the Wolfsangel you see in the pin above (quoted) in the logo, see here. This surely must be awesome to collect. The Dritte Reich 1st (RDS) and 2nd form (RDSF) of the pin, both are for sale sometimes. Not cheap, but, surely someone will like those together. Some magazines as well, most expensive but best condition here.



The RDSF was part of the Reichsnährstand, an organisation, that wanted equality and coördination for agriculture and lifestock. For exemple, a super unportable medal for dairy is here, backside here, very nice. Information in German and some enamel shields you can sometimes find for sale, here. Something on youtube too here.

If you like the subject, you need the book "Faszination Fisch Geschichtliches zum Fisch und seinem Fang", by Heinz Haase, see it here.

Corrected, and Petri Heil,
KR


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Dear Karin,

Thanks so much for the clarification and update on the second pattern RDSF pin, your research skills never cease to amaze me!

We hardly get to see items that are related to sport and commercial-fishing during the Third Reich era, I've seen a few here and there, not too many. The coolest fishing-related item I've ever seen was a presentation Hirschfänger given to a master fisherman, in Gary Southgate's collection.

The Munich Jagd Museum has an incredible exhibit dedicated entirely to the history of fishing in Europe, though, mostly Germany.

Good hunting to all. grin

Bill

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Thought some of you might enjoy this site.
http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/provinz_brandenburg.htm

--dj--Joe


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Joe,

For those who can read German this is a beautiful website, really a wonderful example of a time-line. Good graphics and design all the way round, from the Hoheitsadler wallpaper to the modern reference photos.

Best!

B~

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Originally Posted By: derjager
Thought some of you might enjoy this site.


Very nice and very interesting, yes, thanks Joe! Complete with coins and stamps and population figures even advertizing, wicked for use for a Referat


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A few images I thought some might enjoy ... wink

Best!

B~

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