UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Etches By Holler

On page 71 of Wayne's great book, you can see a Holler etch dedicated to the Condor Legion. This etch design, by the way, with the addition of a few frills, became the standard Luftwaffe etch, ES103, in their catalogue.

Heavily faked, this is a very hard to find etch in any condition. Lucky for me, I found it on Grant Bias's table and had an army of friends and experts who helped me verify that it is surely the real deal. I learned that this etch should only be on a short blade. The blade tip is a bit rounded, but, heck I buy these things for the etch not the tip of blades.

Here it is,

John

The second Holler etch pick up at the show was this long, double etched blade.

On the obverse, you will find the standard remembrance etch pattern, ES102, and the Holler TM.

The reverse shows a three man comunication crew setting up a site. You can see this etch on page 69 of Wayne's book.

I have been searching for this for a long time.

Don't you just love this stuff?

John

John,

In my eye I don't think the rounded tip hurts that nice blade at all. I love viewing your new finds.Congratulations!

I have been looking for a while to get an ES101 pattern etch... the one that is dedicated to anti tank or to artillery units.

I finally found one.

The obverse has the ES104 pattern etch, the so called 3 scene etch with the machine gunner, the anti tank unit and the tank cresting a hill. The obverse also has the Holler TM, often found on Hollers, whereas most other makers will have the Tm on the reverse.

The reverse has the ES101 pattern dedication as seen on page 246. It is to an artillery unit 13 out of Magdeburg. To add icing to the cake, this side also has the distributor, Hans Grunewald, stamped on the blade.

John

This in from the Packman himself.

A Holler produced etch, it has the ES102 pattern with the Helmet replacing the back eagle.

You can see this bookend pattern on page 178 of Wayne's book and this exact etch on page 137 on a Horster marked bayo and on page 204 on a Seilheimer marked one.

There is no maker mark on this blade, but there is a distributor, Esser & Co. of Cologne. I would guess that the distributor, who was a big time Eickhorn client did not want it obvious that he was buying Holler etches, so he asked that only his name be on the blade.

Here it is,

John

While you guys were carousing at the MAX, I was carousing in the UK and Norway.

During my travels, I did find a large number of Norwegian items from both sides of the war.

And, I found a couple of German items as well.

This is a long single etch no maker marked bayonet. The etch patter is by Holler and was produced for the EF Horster company. This etch pattern is very similar to the Pack neutral pattern No 11, but is very much like the pattern by Holler shown on a Horster bayo on page 135 of Wayne's book.

It has two things going for it that made me want to add this to my collection.

1) the dedication to Geb Jaeger 99 is a hard to find dedication and I already have one such on a WKC bayonet (also produced by Holler).

2) there are subtle differences in the etch body, especially around the inside borders surrounding the dedication... I show this on one of the pictures.

Here it is,

John

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Purcchased after teh SOS from my good friend, Paul Hogle, of lakesidetrader.com is this short single etched Holler marked bayonet.

It has the standard Holler ES102 pattern, which is pretty easy to find. It is the dedication to a Cavalry regiment 18 that made it a sure thing for me. You can find lots of unit designations if you look hard enough, but when have you seen a Cavalry dedication? I would presume that such dedication, along with such other rare dedications as ones to Bicycle or Motorcycle units, would be the rarest of all etches to find, maybe only outdone by dedications to individual people (one offs, I call them).

John

Also, from Paul, is this long single etched Horster marked bayonet.

The etch is a varriant of the ES103 Luftwaffe etch found on page 179 of Wayne's great book.

The two variations that made this a must buy for me were:

- the different airplane etch
- the dedication to the airfield.

Can anyone help me by identifying the inscription and its location?

John

Wow John when do you find time to sleep!!
My hat is off to you for your photography. Blade etches have always been a challenge for even the best photographers!

John,Schwaebish-Hall is a town in Baden-Wurtemburg the airfield is still in operation. I believe the luftwaffe had a training base there. The bayonet was discussed some time back when I owned it. Glad you like it. Larry

Thanks, Larry, I really do like it.

If you have any more etches taht you are looking at moving out of, send me a PM.

John

Another find from the Cashi collection is this long, double etched Horster marked bayonet.

Now, Horster bought their etched bayonets from Holler, we know that.

On the reverse, we find the Holler ES102 style etch and you can see it in Wayne`s book on page 136A. But, this one is dedicated to Inf Regt 115 out of Worms. Interesting and a neat attraction to this bayonet.

But, the reason that I had to have this etch is on the obverse. At first blush, it looks like the standard ES104 Holler etch, the so-called three scene pattern, with the blunt bookends. But, unlike the pictured ES104 in the catalogue, the order of the three scenes is reversed: the tank is closest to the blade tip, followed by the anti tank unit and with the machine gunner closest to the crossguard.

To illustrate this, I will show you the standard ES104 etch on a Holler marked blade.

Now, you know why this blade is resting in place in the Great White North.

John

Here are the two ES104 patterns.

First, the Horster reversed 3 scene.

Next, the Holler regular shown in catalogue 3 scene.

What a great hobby where you can find new things all of the time!

John

John
Is it true you had to add a couple rooms to your home to store you collection

Terry:

Not true... but I have added 3 sub basements.

All kidding aside, our good friend, Bill Warda, built a cabinet for me to store my etched bayonets in... I am running out of room in it though.

John

John
Now that is nice. Easy to open a drawer and be amazed.

Very nice John
How many cabinets like this you have ?
One for each maker ?
One time I have to visit your bunker my friend

I remember seeing a picture of that cabinet before. Between Bill's craftsmanship & the beautiful contents, it stayed in my memory. Well done John, as always.

Just arrrived into the hot, muggy North, is this Horster marked bayonet with another Holler variant etch.

As an aside, one of my pet peeves is the fleabay seller who will not ship into Canada. I have never had any problems with any items shipped to me from anywhere in the world, and do not expect any in the future as long as the shipment is packed well and described properly and valued accordingly. So, here is this fleaby item, an etch pattern that I do have, but to a unit that is pretty rare and for which i already have two etches. So, I did want this. What to do? Well, my friend, Mat J, who had pointed this bayonet out to me on the bidding site, volunteered to bid on this for me. He did, we were the high bidder at a decent price, and the package was double shipped to me (first to Mat, then reshipped to me). I am blessed by having friends like Mat on this forum who go out of their way to help a poor, backwoods type of guy like me. You know who you are.

Enough rant, back to the bayonet.

This is a long, single etched bayonet and can be seen on page 136B of Wayne's book. It is a variant on the ES102 Holler etch with a helmet in place of the eagle near the crossguard. The dedication is to Jaeger Regiment 99. And, like some Jaeger dedications, it has a really nice stag grip. The maker mark is Horster.

Here are pics.

Here are my three Jaeger Regt 99 etches:

Holler etch on Horster marked blade
Pack etch on unmarked blade
Holler etch on WKC marked blade.

What a great hobby!

john

Hello: John
Tip of the year...
Holler Horster and E.Pack among others did not do there etching in house.... It was all sent out to one particular sub contact etcher..

Regards: James

That I did not know... I was following the path outlined in Wayne's book, where a number of etchers, like Eickhorn, Klaas, Puma, Holler and Pack did their production in house and sometimes subcontracted their etchings to other makers.

Who was the master etcher, James?

Just a few did in-house work.. And even Eickorn did farm things out somtimes..
There was a few plating and etching companies in the Solingen area.
I have been working on this and will have a work update for the MAX show..

I won't be at the MAX, but maybe we could talk about this at the SOS?

Just in from a pickup at the SOS is this long beauty. You can see this etch pictured in Wayne's book on page 73. It is a ricasso etch and the only marking on the blade other than the Holler thermometer TM. It came with a great scabbard and frog as well, but I care not for these, really only for the blade and the etch.

This is the first one of these I have seen for sale ever. Thank you, Jim Taylor!

John

John Z

30 years ago I owned a bayonet with the RLB (Reichsluftschutzbund) etch on the ricasso. It was a beauty and the only one I have ever seen. I can't remember if it had a TM or not.

TKissinger

Terry:

Thank you for this,.... I didn't see you at the SOS, where you there?

No, I have a shooting match that falls on the same date in Arizona, also my friend Denny G. passed away and I kind of lost interest. I do check the forum on occasion and try to keep up with whats going on. I sold most of my Firemen bayonets and am slowing selling the rest of my collection but do enjoy seeing my fellow collectors additions to there collection.

Terry:

I miss Denny also. He was a great guy and always excited about the hobby.

John

I have a few question concerning this etch on the bayonet.
This etch is generally accepted to be by Holler even though it is on a Paul Seilheimer marked bayonet,

1) Why is it a Holler etch?
2) Are there any holler marked etched bayonets with this etch on them.? (notice the open winged eagle to the L/H side of the etch).
3) Do any of the Holler catalouges show this exact etch.?, I only have one Hioller catalouge and its not in there.
4) If as James says that Holler subcontracted their etching did Holler have a patent on their etches or were the Patents held by the etch company.?
5) I've noticed this open winged eagle on Horster etched bayonets as well and I have heard that they used Holler etches, what other companies used this open winged eagle on their bayonet etches, was it just Seilheimer and Horster?

I'm not sure why this etch is not classed as a Paul Seilheimer etch rather than a Holler etch on a Paul seilheimer bayonet, it's easy just to say that it's a "Holler type etch" and leave it at that, but that doesn't make sense to me, where is the patent mark on this etch ( Ges gesch), you see it on other etches on some edged weapons, was there ever a patent mark on these etches or any bayonet etches?.

Gary

Gary:

Good questions all.

The Holler catalogue shows this pattern, but not this exact, etch as pattern Nr 102 with the blunt bookends.

There is a Holler etch depicted in Wayne's book on page 178 with the same wide wing eagle, which is not shown in their catalogue. So, I would say that the blunt ES102 pattern, even with the wide wing eagle is a Holler pattern.

Wayne states in his book, and I agree with his observation, that a number of prolific etchers, like Holler, sold certain patterns to other manufacturers who did not have or want etching facilities. In particular, there seems to be some sore of exclusivity offered on certain etch patterns to certain buyers.

This takes us to Seilheimer. Seilheimer catalogue show them selling the Holler ES102 and the ES103 pattern Holler etches. The only eagles they seem to offer are the Luftwaffe droop tail and the Wehrmacht open wing (that we have seen on what looks like a one off Holler piece). You can find examples od the ES102 pattern with wide wing eagle on pages 203 and 204.

This is the first example that I have seen of the wide wing eagle and the flak gun combination. I have seen and have in my collection a stubby wing/flak gun combination on a Holler marked bayo.

As to your question re patents, some etch patterns show the Ges. Gesch. of patent pending most do not. I have no idea why this is. I have never seen this on a Holler, nor Eickhorn nor Pack, made etch.

Wayne's book also states that Holler sold etch patterns to Alcoso, Horster, Evertz, Luneschloss, Herder and WKC as well as Seilheimer, some of which have the ES102 pattern with wide wing eagle if you look in the book. Which means that the example you show could very well appear on bayonets marked with any of the above makers, IMHO.

As to James observation that Holler subcontracted etching, I do not know, but assume that some form of subcontracting was taking place all the time in order to meet production schedules at peak times for all of the blade manufacturers.

Nice etched bayonet on a not often found maker, Gary.

John

John

Thanks for your detailed explanation, I'm not a great collector of etched bayonets so I haven't got Wayne's book to check, good to hear that Holler used this open winged eagle even if there is only one example to date.
It seems that seilheimer used this open winged eagle and nothing else on there etches. Here it is again on a short Luft version.

Cheers

Gary

Seilheimer shows another Holler etch with differing bookends as pattern 3 in their catalog. This exact etch is unnumbered but shown in the Holler catalogue.

Here is a Seilheimer long blade with a couple of interesting features:

It has an expected Holler etch, pattern ES102.
It is a Luftwaffe service etch
The Luft indication is an airplane instead of the usual Luft eagle.
It has the presentation to Gefr Berger in gold on the reverse.
It sports the rare Seilheimer sword hilt maker mark.

A fine addition to my Great White North collection.

John

Very nice John

PVON