UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Why would a SA dagger have 2 group mark stamps?

Just trying to get my head around this one and appreciate the combined knowledge here. Nrh and B ?

I've not seen that before.

I have seen one SS guard with a number crossed out and a new one added. I have also seen a marked SA guard with a "W" off on the side.

Looking at the one photo and I know it looks better in your possesion but the Nrh looks pretty hacked up around the top of the letters. Just a thought

That's just cause I can't take pics, it is clear.
A ground Rohm reissued maybe? I've just never seen this before.

Interesting, thanks for posting this Paul.
I have never seen this either.

Could it be for and SA man who simply moved from one Gau to another?

The way that the stamps are done differently (one is at an angles and a little uneven, while the other "B" is straight and clear), makes me think that these were done at different times, by different people. Thus something like a re-issue, or SA man who relocated makes sense to me (rather then a mis-strike).

If one of these stamps was in error, I think they would have crossed it out.

Are these Gaus located beside one another? Perhaps this was issued to an SA man who in some way served 2 regions?

Very strange, interested in others input.

Good hunting,
Johnny

My experience is that whether people moved in the SA or not, the crossguard stamp was not changed or updated. It was a stamp done before the dagger was issued but had little significance beyond that.

If anyone has better info, please post so we can all learn
Dave

hard to tell which one was there first but my guess it was the Nrh

Another thought is,, I hate to say this but, the only way to tell from what I seen in the past since it is a Pack dagger with a "B" on the crossguard then inside the lower crossguard there should have the "S" within the horseshoe marking. But whos going to open it and find out? I have only known Pack daggers and Haco to have the "B" group mark,, But Pack had many other group marks as well. Not unless at the last minute the guy applying the group marks was told differently and hit it and moved it along. Maybe something like those left handed Mottos we see on SA daggers that slips through QC! My vote its a "B" and I take back what I said above about the Nrh. Also how many Nrh Pack daggers compared to Pack B daggers had a Rohm inscription? This should stir the pot a little!! Best Larry

According to Fisher, Pack issued daggers to both groups Nrh and B. Just interesting these small anomolies. Shows how much we still have to learn.

Very interesting, it's the 1st time I see it. My theory is this dagger was initialy supplied to Berlin-Brandenbourg group (B mark is just on crossguard center)and before issued to a SA-member may be it was mouved to Neiderrhein groupe to supply a momentaneous lack of daggers, where it received a new local inspection mark.

Could have been a cock up at the time of inspection? It may be a Friday afternoon dagger ^^

As said earlier, it is uncommon for a new Gau mark to be added just because a man moves area. If it was the case we would see thousands of them as i am sure this guy was not the only one moved around.

That's an interesting theory, Spock.
Never though of that one.
Already had someone turn it down as it's not "textbook"

Maybe one Gau ran out of daggers, had to drive over to a different Gau and get a few to hold them over....

My theory is that it is an SA Mann transfering to the NSKK before the painting of the scabbards black from the period just before the change and then he never followed the rule or stayed in the SA. Looks like an NSKK remarking to me.

Have you seen this before Ron?

I think this circles back around to Spocks Theory, and if that were the case the lower crossguard would have many Group marks as Winnebagos have travel stickers from, visiting from place to place.

A lot is being said about these marks but in fact we really know very little for certain.

What we know:

1. They were applied to most, but not all, early SA and NSKK with nickel silver crossguards.

2. We call them "Gau marks" but they are really SA/NSKK district or group marks.

3. The skill of the people who stamped these marks varied greatly. One district, "Ho", always stamped theirs off center. You also see numerous double strikes, light strikes, etc.

4. No one has found a document that explains the purpose of these markings.

What we can infer from the above ? This is just educated guess work so feel free to disagree:

1. The marking was not done at the factory. Too clumsy and random. They were done locally, but obviously under HQ orders since the stamps look similar and were probably made and sent out to the "Gau".

2. They are not property marks since property marks generally denote unit property. SA men bought their daggers. SA units may have had a few spare "loaners" but it cannot be over 90% of all daggers !

3. They are unlikely to be inspection marks. Quality control takes place at a factory. Besides, if it was an inspection mark, all daggers would have one and it would be the same mark ... or 213 different marks - one for each maker !


SA men were for the most part volunteers who were paid little money beyond expenses and maybe not even that. Some did move around and it has been established elsewhere that when they did move to a different group, they got a new SA number as the SA number was NOT a national number like an SS serial number. Had it been standard practice to re-mark daggers when a man moved, we would have seen a lot more double or triple marked daggers.

This all says to me that we have not found a water-tight reason for Paul's very interesting dagger.

Keep the thinking caps one. :D:D

Dave

Here is a picture

Nice summary Dave, I agree with your assessment.