UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum rad hewer research

hello, i have a rad hewer with the number br 251 stamped on the grip and the scabbard and i would like to know if this number could give me any type of information on this hewer
what is this number?
thanks
john

could this be what the br 251 number means?:

http://www.lexikon-d...BauBtl251-R.htm

http://www.stampsx.c...suche_ort=15843

or could this number mean something else?

thanks
john

Sorry unable to follow these links-can you repost in entirety??

Paul

Paul,

Here are the links:

http://www.stampsx.com/ratgeber/stempel-datenbank.php?stempelsuche_ort=15843

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/BauBtl/BauBtl251-R.htm

Perfect-if only I could understand it ..............!
Thanks

paul

But you were searching only number 251 and not full ''br 251'' on those two sites. Regarding your search this bataillon built railway.

Oh my dear collector´s god!!!! Unfortunately this thread is full of misunderstandings. An old fellow collector of mine once told me "if you do COLLECT german items you have to THINK german" (- NOT meant in any POLITICAL way!).
First of all, these RAD numbers are (to my best knowledge) up to now NOT researchable. These are, also to my best knowledge, cloth-chamber inventary numbers and therefore not relateable to a certain person. Up to now at least in collector circles even the abbrevation of Br (Ba, Mn are also occuring abbrevations) are unknown. It is said that these are the large supply centers of the RAD, Br for Braunschweig but I am not sure.
These two links mentioned in this thread are interesting for certain research reasons but unfortunately in no way for this certain one. The first link leads to a registration of field post rubber stamps and the second one to unit numbers. Both absolutely use- and senseless for this case.
Regards,

but we keep trying, and searching,and one day maybe....lets not dissuade anyone from doing that-so well done and keep it up Militaryman!

P

Paul, you might be right. Perhaps in any archiv, anywhere in the world, some unexplored files...
But in the case of numbered RAD hewers the wearers could have changed daily or even hourly.
Regards,

i was told that the br 251 could mean bau regiment 251 but when i searched it nothing came up so i looked around and found the bau batallions of the bautruppen and thought that br 251 could have been the bau battalion 251.

Tom Wittman said on his item description of a RAD hewer that that this type of number was a battalion number, but i dont know for sure.

are you saying that this number doesnt pertain to the bau batallions or any other unit of the RAD?

@ militaryman: First let me make up for welcome you to the forum which I failed to do in my earlier postings.
For sure this Br has not the least to do with Bau Regiment or such things. The number for sure nothing with any unit number. There is also some totally senseless, wrongly and nonsense speculation about "Fü" (another abbrevation on RAD hewers) for "Führer" (= leader).
I have never seen any written source/instruction on the certain matter but an old, longtime RAD collector -who also has served as RAD man during the war(!)- once told me that these (as already stated) are abbrevations for main RAD supply chambers. The number is nothing else than an intern serial number.
Btw, Fü stands for the city of Fürth near Nürnberg.
Regards,

I did some research and also contacted the old RAD collector. These abbrevations sometimes stamped on earlier RAD hewers (and other material like eg belts) are related to the RAD Bekleidungsämter (RAD clothing offices). Bn for Berlin, Mn supposably for München (Munich) and Fü for Fürth.
Regards,

Thank you Wotan, even such small details as this help to bring our artifacts to life-what location would you suggest for Ma?

RAD Hewer

If there is an "Ma" and I think it is otherwise you would not ask (I only cannot remember in the moment having seen it on a hewer) I assume it would be Magdeburg at Arbeitsgau XIII Magdeburg-Anhalt.
Regards,

hello, thanks for clarifying this. since you gave the meaning of some of the letters. what city does Br represent?

do you know what the number 251 means?

Wotan, here is mine
Paul

John,

Up to now, there isn't a definitive answer for the abbreviations on RAD pieces. For years, it was speculated that the abbreviation "Fü" stood for Führer (leader) but that's probably not the case. MOst collectors today feel the letters stand for specific cities which, as Wotan points out, were distribution centers for the RAD. As far as the numbers, I'm pretty confident "251" is an inventory number for the specific hewer, similar to the way police bayonets are numbered.

@militaryman1000: "Br" I assume would be (Arbeitsgau XI - Mittelschlesien) Breslau or (XVI Niedersachsen Mitte) Bremen.
I tried a special search on RAD-Bekleidungsämter but could not find any special list (which for sure did exist) so i cannot fix it to the one or the other. Not each Arbeitsgau has had his own Bekleidungsamt.

@Paul: very nice Krebs hewer with matching numbers, hard to find. Mostly hewers and scabbards were switched at least after the war.

@Billy G.: this "Führer" (leader) roumor imo just was set from some clever dealers who tried to gain some extra money for Fü marked hewers and it fittet so well the explanation for Ma (or Mn) für "Mannschaft" (men), Until you ask for an explanation of eg Br ;-).

Regards,

hello, could you possibly give me some information on these RAD Units?:

(Arbeitsgau XI - Mittelschlesien) Breslau

(XVI Niedersachsen Mitte) Bremen

thanks
john

Wotan,

Those clever dealers, at it again

i am not a dealer, i am simply trying to research my Rad hewer any wat i can. i find research very interesting
thanks
john

@militaryman1000, I am sorry, I have no specific Information on these Arbeitsgaue. I would recommend to do an internet search, for sure there is some information on them there to find.
Billy G did refer to my comment on clever dealers who tried to push the value of an item by what I think purposeful misinterpretation. Research is always interesting and not too often done any more in regard of edged weapons. On the other hand a lot of valuable information is lost due to dislocation, destruction and the dieing away of people who know. Therefore research is not easily done which discourages most collectors.
Regards,

The consensus here makes good sense but how do we explain the personalized examples? I have one stamped Ma592 also period engraved "Johann Becker 27 1 35" on the lower hilt spine. Have also followed a "numbered" example on e-bay w a fine monogram on the obverse hilt.
I understand that regulations may have changed and allowed purchase of daggers from the gau. But it seems unlikely that one who desired (and could afford) a personalized dagger would accept one with the gaudy stampings. Why not buy new without the stampings? Also as the dated example suggests this change of regulation would have happened early, in about the first year of production.
Perhaps the original owner of my dated dagger was so happy he had a job, some money and now a dagger that he commemorated the date of purchase?......Thanks All

royboy, first let me welcome you to the forum. Please, show us a pic of the certain hewer/engraving.
Regards,